Pict and Basque

[MeShelle]

:33:HMMM... Ok so im confused... See JZB said he is pict and Basque.... Heres the thing Basque people are generaly from northern spain. I know this because my mothers family is from a Basque background (Not to mention her maiden name is Vazquez which is said to be one of the first surnames of the Basque people. She has lots of history from her people) Anywho lets say its not spanish but the other minority is from the southern part of France if im not mistaken... I just dont see how can he be Basque... If there is anything i missed please help because i am pulling my hairs out of confusion... Now i might have to call my grandfather and as for a brief history lesson and that will cost me a good penny because he lives in spain so i would love your help

[Vivid Confusion]

Check out the early history of the Celts. There are the Fir Bolg, who are one of three mythological(?) indigenous peoples for the islands. Also, the information I found is that approximately 75% of the "native" population of the British Isles have Basque ancestory traced through DNA from the Y Chromosome. Both of these pre-date the Tuatha De as prehistoric migrations and tie in with the Picts.

I'm starting to think JB is connected with the Fir Bolg--the ones the Tuatha De defeated when they came to Ireland.

[MeShelle]

Thanks for the info... Now this makes alot of sense...

[Liberty]

Check out the early history of the Celts. There are the Fir Bolg, who are one of three mythological(?) indigenous peoples for the islands. Also, the information I found is that approximately 75% of the "native" population of the British Isles have Basque ancestory traced through DNA from the Y Chromosome. Both of these pre-date the Tuatha De as prehistoric migrations and tie in with the Picts.

I'm starting to think JB is connected with the Fir Bolg--the ones the Tuatha De defeated when they came to Ireland.

You beat me to it. :)

[Danielle42]

:33:HMMM... Ok so im confused... See JZB said he is pict and Basque.... Heres the thing Basque people are generaly from northern spain. I know this because my mothers family is from a Basque background (Not to mention her maiden name is Vazquez which is said to be one of the first surnames of the Basque people. She has lots of history from her people) Anywho lets say its not spanish but the other minority is from the southern part of France if im not mistaken... I just dont see how can he be Basque... If there is anything i missed please help because i am pulling my hairs out of confusion... Now i might have to call my grandfather and as for a brief history lesson and that will cost me a good penny because he lives in spain so i would love your help

The Celts arrived in Britain and Ireland via a number of waves of migration - some of which came directly from the Iberian penninsula, home of the Basques.

[claudia celestial girl]

The Celts arrived in Britain and Ireland via a number of waves of migration - some of which came directly from the Iberian penninsula, home of the Basques.

I scouted around on Wikipedia, and if this history is to part of KMM's universe, then it implies that brother-man (JZB) is f*&^%$# old!

The Basque influence on the Celts was around 600 BC. The Pict history dates from that timeframe as well.

It 'feels' about right for him, though. Far older than Cian, but not as old as Adam. Those guys - Cian, Drustan and Dageus are just 'old'; JZB and Adam, they are 'ancient'. does that make sense!

[LisK]

I scouted around on Wikipedia, and if this history is to part of KMM's universe, then it implies that brother-man (JZB) is f*&^%$# old!

The Basque influence on the Celts was around 600 BC. The Pict history dates from that timeframe as well.

It 'feels' about right for him, though. Far older than Cian, but not as old as Adam. Those guys - Cian, Drustan and Dageus are just 'old'; JZB and Adam, they are 'ancient'. does that make sense!


Yes, Claudia that makes sense. I just finished re-reading DF, and when Mac keeps buggin JB about who he is, he says, you're human, and I'm.... something else. But he doesn't elaborate, which of course frustrates the he** out of Mac (and us). So, the history of the Basques/Picts and migration times would suggest someone very Ancient!

[claudia celestial girl]

In the Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, it says that the Fir Bolg, (who I won't describe because someone else did that):


worshipped an ancient diety named Bolga
one of their early kings was named Rinnal (a great and generous king, who only ruled for 37 years before the Tua De came in)
His wife was named Tailtiu - in whose honor he created a famous festival (it doesn't say that she died but it is sort of implied)
The Tua De defeat the Fir bolg near Lough Arrow Co. (I'll have to look that up separately and see if it is near Galway)
Other heroes of the Fir Bolg include: Delga - builder of Dun Delgan [Dundalk]; Fingein Fisoiscdha (a physician); and Sreng, the champion who served Nuadu's arm ( Nuadu is another ancient god of the Fir Bolg, one who was a cloud-maker)


Interesting, huh? I like the idea of JZB being an ancient king (and Druid as well). It would explain his sometimes royal demeanor. I"ve been thinking it was one of these ancient dieties whom cursed JZB so thoroughly. We know one of these ancient gods featured in the rise of the Draghar, so ancient gods can be part of KMM's universe.

It also says in this Dictionary that the Fir Bolg might be another name for the Formorians, since there is not record of any war between the two 'predatory' races.

[Pyxie]

I was looking on Wikipedia for info on them, but most of it is vague, there are theories ranging from Leprechuns (gold workers) to Giants, and 'Bag Men' and in some of the readings they sound like a defeated almost subservient race...defeated by more than the Tua De.

If that is the case that could put JZB in a bad place - trying to get his hands on the 'Dark Book' to gain the upper hand over the Tua De.

[MeShelle]

Thanks for the info girls

[claudia celestial girl]

I was looking on Wikipedia for info on them, but most of it is vague, there are theories ranging from Leprechuns (gold workers) to Giants, and 'Bag Men' and in some of the readings they sound like a defeated almost subservient race...defeated by more than the Tua De.

If that is the case that could put JZB in a bad place - trying to get his hands on the 'Dark Book' to gain the upper hand over the Tua De.
In the Dictionary of Celtic Mythology it says that the Fir Blog for a time were an oppressed people, in 'Greece'? ( I think Greece here refers just to a 'land far far away') where they were forced to carry earth in bags - that got them the appellage 'Bag Men.' then they escaped and went to ireland, where the divided up the island and had a golden realm for a time. Until the Tua De. After they were defeated by the Tua De, they supposedly 'fled'.

So I was thinking, like you, it would be a motive for JZB to hate the Fae - if he was indeed part of this race. And also to know a lot about them. But all this stuff happens a loooong time - long before the BAsque/Pict timeframes, no?

[Pyxie]

In the Dictionary of Celtic Mythology it says that the Fir Blog for a time were an oppressed people, in 'Greece'? ( I think Greece here refers just to a 'land far far away') where they were forced to carry earth in bags - that got them the appellage 'Bag Men.' then they escaped and went to ireland, where the divided up the island and had a golden realm for a time. Until the Tua De. After they were defeated by the Tua De, they supposedly 'fled'.

So I was thinking, like you, it would be a motive for JZB to hate the Fae - if he was indeed part of this race. And also to know a lot about them. But all this stuff happens a loooong time - long before the BAsque/Pict timeframes, no?


Ok. I found something really obscure, but I thought I would share anyway. I still need to look into it more, but I found something related to Pict/Basque: Ollamh Druids, 'Arch Druids', if you will - the most powerful, highest ranking, and according the obscure reference that I did find, they could only be of royal decent.

1. Pre date Tua De
2. One translation of 'Ollamh' - means 'Destoyer of Generations'
3. the only thing I've found on the 'levels' of Druids is this

Class Year Tales Level
Ollair 1 20 Elementary Students
Fochlac 2 30 Advanced Beginner
MacFiurmedh 3 40 Intermediate
Doss 4 50 Advanced Intermediate
Cana 5 60 Advanced
Cli 6 80 Journeyman
Ánrad 7-9 175 Master/Warrior
Ollamh 10-12 350 Doctor/Judge (I think doctor though would be the equivalent of a PhD)

Hmm...what do you think? A possibility for JZB? Hope I can find more on it.

[claudia celestial girl]

OMG! Dr. His Were-ness!

*smiles*

[Danielle42]

Ok. I found something really obscure, but I thought I would share anyway. I still need to look into it more, but I found something related to Pict/Basque: Ollamh Druids, 'Arch Druids', if you will - the most powerful, highest ranking, and according the obscure reference that I did find, they could only be of royal decent.

1. Pre date Tua De
2. One translation of 'Ollamh' - means 'Destoyer of Generations'
3. the only thing I've found on the 'levels' of Druids is this

Class Year Tales Level
Ollair 1 20 Elementary Students
Fochlac 2 30 Advanced Beginner
MacFiurmedh 3 40 Intermediate
Doss 4 50 Advanced Intermediate
Cana 5 60 Advanced
Cli 6 80 Journeyman
Ánrad 7-9 175 Master/Warrior
Ollamh 10-12 350 Doctor/Judge (I think doctor though would be the equivalent of a PhD)

Hmm...what do you think? A possibility for JZB? Hope I can find more on it.

Wow that's great. You may be on to something there 'cause that would explain:

- JZB's ancient-ness (how about that along with "His Were-ness"? ;-)
- his knowledge and as you said his hatred of the Fae
- his power and mystery...

[*Jo*]

In the Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, it says that the Fir Bolg, (who I won't describe because someone else did that):


worshipped an ancient diety named Bolga
one of their early kings was named Rinnal (a great and generous king, who only ruled for 37 years before the Tua De came in)
His wife was named Tailtiu - in whose honor he created a famous festival (it doesn't say that she died but it is sort of implied)
The Tua De defeat the Fir bolg near Lough Arrow Co. (I'll have to look that up separately and see if it is near Galway)
Other heroes of the Fir Bolg include: Delga - builder of Dun Delgan [Dundalk]; Fingein Fisoiscdha (a physician); and Sreng, the champion who served Nuadu's arm ( Nuadu is another ancient god of the Fir Bolg, one who was a cloud-maker)


Interesting, huh? I like the idea of JZB being an ancient king (and Druid as well). It would explain his sometimes royal demeanor. I"ve been thinking it was one of these ancient dieties whom cursed JZB so thoroughly. We know one of these ancient gods featured in the rise of the Draghar, so ancient gods can be part of KMM's universe.

It also says in this Dictionary that the Fir Bolg might be another name for the Formorians, since there is not record of any war between the two 'predatory' races.

Ok...SO indeed the Formorians predated the Tuatha De Dannan in Ireland...So Virginia would be correct when she posted her theory about 2 months ago.

Did ANYONE read that the Formorians & Tuatha De interbred so often that it was hard to distinguish between the two per a section of celticmythology.com/underground I believe...
While Tuatha took to the sky or island (Moror), the Formorians inhabited the underground. That would definitely explain why JZB commented he knew the sewers well when escaping with Mac after stealing the Spear of Christ...
Check the question Was JZB born in the City of Tir fo Thuinn/BLOODFEVER...So JZB could be one of the DRUID-TEACHERS of that city or one of the FORMORIAN FAE royalty that was cursed.

[miss lulu]

You guys have done a wonderful job! And like MeShelle, I also have Basque in me (my mother's side of the family is from Northern Spain) and I have that direct blood type that is from that region of Northern Spain. I guess you can call us Gallegas!:D

[*Jo*]

Ok. I found something really obscure, but I thought I would share anyway. I still need to look into it more, but I found something related to Pict/Basque: Ollamh Druids, 'Arch Druids', if you will - the most powerful, highest ranking, and according the obscure reference that I did find, they could only be of royal decent.

1. Pre date Tua De
2. One translation of 'Ollamh' - means 'Destoyer of Generations'
3. the only thing I've found on the 'levels' of Druids is this

Class Year Tales Level
Ollair 1 20 Elementary Students
Fochlac 2 30 Advanced Beginner
MacFiurmedh 3 40 Intermediate
Doss 4 50 Advanced Intermediate
Cana 5 60 Advanced
Cli 6 80 Journeyman
Ánrad 7-9 175 Master/Warrior
Ollamh 10-12 350 Doctor/Judge (I think doctor though would be the equivalent of a PhD)

Hmm...what do you think? A possibility for JZB? Hope I can find more on it.

THANKS for all this great info...I give you the :bowrofl-vi:

I think that JZB is Master/Warrior that happens to be cursed...
Anyone else ?!!!

[claudia celestial girl]

Ok...SO indeed the Formorians predated the Tuatha De Dannan in Ireland...So Virginia would be correct when she posted her theory about 2 months ago.

Did ANYONE read that the Formorians & Tuatha De interbred so often that it was hard to distinguish between the two per a section of celticmythology.com/underground I believe...
While Tuatha took to the sky or island (Moror), the Formorians inhabited the underground. That would definitely explain why JZB commented he knew the sewers well when escaping with Mac after stealing the Spear of Christ...
Check the question Was JZB born in the City of Tir fo Thuinn/BLOODFEVER...So JZB could be one of the DRUID-TEACHERS of that city or one of the FORMORIAN FAE royalty that was cursed.
OK, Jo - you've been telling us about this for months!

But the Fir Bolg were not the Formorians (even though I quoted a source that said they might be one and the same, under the entry under Formorians it says that the Fir Bolg and the Formorians were two separate peoples who both pre-dated the Tuathe De.)

The Formorians were supposedly divine, like the Tuatha De. While it seems like the Fir Bolg were human. In the dictionary it says that one of the kings of the Tua De at one point was a half-Formorian, half-Tuatha De. And it says that the Formorians were the 'marine counterparts' of the Tuatha De.

But we don't know if this dictionary world is really part of the KMM universe (yet). We DO know that the Fir Bolg were mentioned by KMM - Mac looks them up in the library.

But, I got to hand it to you. You dug all this stuff up months ago and told us to read all about it. I just never did. Lazy me!

So now I have to eat crow - I said JZB could not both be Fae and Formorian, light and dark Druid and a prince. Ha! How wrong could I be!

You should take three bows --> this is you: :20: :anim_bow-vi: :20:

[CelticMorwen]

I love this stuff!!!

Morwen

[*Jo*]

OK, Jo - you've been telling us about this for months!

But the Fir Bolg were not the Formorians (even though I quoted a source that said they might be one and the same, under the entry under Formorians it says that the Fir Bolg and the Formorians were two separate peoples who both pre-dated the Tuathe De.)

The Formorians were supposedly divine, like the Tuatha De. While it seems like the Fir Bolg were human. In the dictionary it says that one of the kings of the Tua De at one point was a half-Formorian, half-Tuatha De. And it says that the Formorians were the 'marine counterparts' of the Tuatha De.

But we don't know if this dictionary world is really part of the KMM universe (yet). We DO know that the Fir Bolg were mentioned by KMM - Mac looks them up in the library.

But, I got to hand it to you. You dug all this stuff up months ago and told us to read all about it. I just never did. Lazy me!

So now I have to eat crow - I said JZB could not both be Fae and Formorian, light and dark Druid and a prince. Ha! How wrong could I be!

You should take three bows --> this is you: :20: :anim_bow-vi: :20:



I have had time on my hands. Nothing less. Nothing more. And though I am not fond of the saying, "It's not over 'til the fat lady sings !"
I just hate puzzles & it is second nature for me to analize everything...I do mean everthing. :D
All I did was post theories to pass the time & boredom. Not only that it was a really great way for all you wonderful dedicated followers (& me) to converse and spend time together while we all wait for Karen Marie's next book of the series.
I still will be betting that I will be eating crow myself for some time to come. Besides, October 16 th is not yet here...:03:
As far as I can tell, the book is not yet in our hands, and the first page has not been turned...

[Danielle42]

I have had time on my hands. Nothing less. Nothing more. And though I am not fond of the saying, "It's not over 'til the fat lady sings !"
I just hate puzzles & it is second nature for me to analize everything...I do mean everthing. :D
All I did was post theories to pass the time & boredom. Not only that it was a really great way for all you wonderful dedicated followers (& me) to converse and spend time together while we all wait for Karen Marie's next book of the series.
I still will be betting that I will be eating crow myself for some time to come. Besides, October 16 th is not yet here...:03:
As far as I can tell, the book is not yet in our hands, and the first page has not been turned...


Ever modest *Jo* but I agree with Claudia...

This is FOR you:

:bowrofl-vi:

[krstis]

:2v-vi:You guys are doing a great job. Last night I read a review on Amazon.com about BF, and it won't surprise me if we all get strung along through BF and still don't know exactly what/who JZB is! Ayayay the suspense!

[Daria]

Doesn't JB appear at some point wearing a torque? That was usually worn only by the royal family I think. (Yes but whose royal family I hear you say)

I don't know what to think because he traces like a vampire.... he doesn't sift time, he seems to trace. I think the way he speaks is very Old European, the phraseology he uses sometimes I usually associate with Eastern European-type accents. There is another vampire connection, plus he licks Mac's vein... but there is also stuff to suggest he isn't a vampire too. And to be honest, I can't fit vampires into KMM's previous scenarios..... I can see how the Pict/Basque stuff fits and the Fir Bolg and there are a group called the Milesians thrown in there for good measure too (sometime after the Tuatha De I think). And the Celts... well.... The Keltoi were first mentioned by the ancient Greeks, located in what is Hungary now.. so Eastern European again..... aaaarrrrggggghhhh!!!!

[brooke eve]

Check out the early history of the Celts. There are the Fir Bolg, who are one of three mythological(?) indigenous peoples for the islands. Also, the information I found is that approximately 75% of the "native" population of the British Isles have Basque ancestory traced through DNA from the Y Chromosome. Both of these pre-date the Tuatha De as prehistoric migrations and tie in with the Picts.

I'm starting to think JB is connected with the Fir Bolg--the ones the Tuatha De defeated when they came to Ireland.

I had to register if only to add my 2 cents:
Coming from a Basque/Indian/Mexican family of anarchists who love X-Files-type history:
The Basque, the Irish, and the Japanese Ainu seem to share a lot of cultural and chromosonal history. They're all red-haired people that modern day historians have no idea where they've come from. I've read actual scientific papers that swear that the Basque language has to be extra-terrestrial because it resembles no other language on earth.

BTW, just finished Bloodfever. It rocks. :anim_headbang-vi:

[Mariam]

Ahha your right but if you re-read it, she describes what he looks like... and it fits in your Pict and Basque situation =]

[got4bugs]

I'm getting Bloodfever today, and can't wait. :happy0158:

Until I read everyones posts I was strongly leaning toward Vampire because of the human blood on his shirt, the fact that he never comes into the store until after dark, and the Shades seem to not want any part of him. I thought the sewers could be away for him to travel during the day (sorry to much Vamp t.v. shows).

The feeling I've gotten from DF about JB was defeniately something ancient.
Is it possible for him to be part fae, and ML not be able to sense it? If he has any kind of fae magics, wether it be protection or curse, would she since it the way she senses the OOPs, and can see through the glamour? :33:

Sorry, lots of questions and no one older than 11 to ask about it here.

[Ktamsor2]

I'm getting Bloodfever today, and can't wait. :happy0158:

Until I read everyones posts I was strongly leaning toward Vampire because of the human blood on his shirt, the fact that he never comes into the store until after dark, and the Shades seem to not want any part of him. I thought the sewers could be away for him to travel during the day (sorry to much Vamp t.v. shows).

The feeling I've gotten from DF about JB was defeniately something ancient.
Is it possible for him to be part fae, and ML not be able to sense it? If he has any kind of fae magics, wether it be protection or curse, would she since it the way she senses the OOPs, and can see through the glamour? :33:

Sorry, lots of questions and no one older than 11 to ask about it here.

well, darn it, I have an answer for you, but it's in BF, so I don't want to post a spoiler here. Let's just say that in some cases, Mac can't sense a fae. :a20: