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View Full Version : Darroc might not be as bad as we think



Miakara
07-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Hey guys, first time I have ever posted new thread so this is how much this question is burning me...

I have noticed the following points regarding LM which make me wonder if he isn't ALL that bad,

1. He kept photos of Alina...why would he do that if he was using her? I think he has feelings for her.

2. He told mac that he did not plan on getting rid of Alina when he was done with her (the way he talks to Mac about Alina indicates that he has feelings for her

3. At the end when all the dark princes are having fun with Mac he is the fourth "presence" there but at NO point does it say that he actualy has sex with her

4. He then says... "I think she will obey me now he murmered". I would of thought that if the LM finally got his hands on the only being that can find the book and had her under his control he would be a little more enthusiastic and high on victory. The fact that he murmers indicates that he is not particularly happy about the situation.

One by one not much but I think when taking ALL of the above points it makes me wonder...could it be possible that LM is one of the 5 that QA mentions about placing where they can help her in the future? Is it possible that LM is and has been "working" as a human for QA as a kind of "undercover fae"? After looking at teasers etc I am starting to think if maybe KMM is preparing a twist and maybe a "redemption" of Darroc for future book? I am probably waaaaayyyy off but any points for OR against the above would be great!!! Thanks for yout time everyone

lilahlove
07-12-2009, 09:37 PM
Great thoughts. I also thought that he sounded really upset about Alina's death and I do not think he caused it. I don't think he was 4th presence with Mac and Unseelie. If I recall correctly, she felt the presence and then later heard a door open and foot steps coming into the room, then she looked up and saw Darroc standing there. (I could be wrong about that, though.) And it may sound ridiculous, but I dislike Rowena way more than I dislike Darroc. I think maybe being with Alina might have softened him a little. Maybe? No? And he might be helping QA, but in IH she was planning on killing him with sword, only Adam saved him and had her turn him into human instead.

Thanks for thread. I can't wait to see what Jill says! LOL

victoria blake
07-12-2009, 10:08 PM
I'm so glad you posted this. I also think Darroc may end up redeeming himself (so to speak). At least I hope so, and here are two reasons I'm REALLY hoping it happens:

1. Rowena is so easy for me to dislike/mistrust. I would love to label her as the "bad guy"

2. It would be GREAT if Mac (and myself) didn't have to go on thinking Alina fell for someone evil. Maybe it would help Mac to know that despite everything Alina was dealing with in Dublin, there really was someone there that she not only loved, but loved her also.

I'm not saying this is what I THINK will happen...just that this is what I would LIKE to see happen. I've given up trying to figure out where this series is going. KMM does an excellent job of keeping me guessing. :wspinny:

RedRose
07-12-2009, 10:11 PM
Those are some really good points there that I didn't think of! I agree with lihalove as saying that she prefers Darroc over Rowena. I do think that he fell in love with Alina and softened him but I highly doubt he is working for anyone but himself. Maybe he keeps the photos of Alina for his love and to remind him of what he can get back from the book but also have it as a strength tool. I also do not truly believe he was the main cause of Alina's death. I do think, however, he has his own personal gain from getting the book. ~That he has his own thoughts and reasons of why he wants the book [for himself]. I think he might have had Alina controlled with Voice for a brief time but as a very last resort, like a final desperation to have her in his grasp. It is evil mixed with a longing romance. I also do not think he was kissing or being with Mac at the last scene in Faefever nor do I really believe he with do anything with Mac such as touching or kissing. He only wants Mac for she can sense the magical oricles that is needed for power. I believe Darroc hurt himself when Alina started to leave him therefore using Voice. When he murmurs, I agree that he isn't thrilled with having Mac at his bay. I think it is a more of a reconition that he has her to use to find the book. I also do not think he even wants to hurt anyone more so that he just wants power for his to use.
Great thread by the way and good thinking!!!!! I cannot wait to hear others' opinions.

jeskrt
07-12-2009, 10:36 PM
I kind of want to see Darroc redeemed too. Honestly, I think the teaser that involved the speaker saying she wants to stay in that moment forever or something like that and then the guy says that there will come a time where she will wonder if she could hate him more.... I THINK that that could be an entry in Alina's diary, remembering that conversation. It just.. makes me wonder.

V'lane_Obsession
07-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Those are some really good points there that I didn't think of! I agree with lihalove as saying that she prefers Darroc over Rowena. I do think that he fell in love with Alina and softened him but I highly doubt he is working for anyone but himself. Maybe he keeps the photos of Alina for his love and to remind him of what he can get back from the book but also have it as a strength tool. I also do not truly believe he was the main cause of Alina's death. I do think, however, he has his own personal gain from getting the book. ~That he has his own thoughts and reasons of why he wants the book [for himself]. I think he might have had Alina controlled with Voice for a brief time but as a very last resort, like a final desperation to have her in his grasp. It is evil mixed with a longing romance. I also do not think he was kissing or being with Mac at the last scene in Faefever nor do I really believe he with do anything with Mac such as touching or kissing. He only wants Mac for she can sense the magical oricles that is needed for power. I believe Darroc hurt himself when Alina started to leave him therefore using Voice. When he murmurs, I agree that he isn't thrilled with having Mac at his bay. I think it is a more of a reconition that he has her to use to find the book. I also do not think he even wants to hurt anyone more so that he just wants power for his to use.
Great thread by the way and good thinking!!!!! I cannot wait to hear others' opinions.
I feel the same way. I don't want to think of him as the bad guy especially after all the things he did that Adam mentioned, like playing with a human woman and then killing her. I don't think he's killed Alina, I think Malluce did it out of jealousy. After thinking on it more, I believe that at first Darroc was after the book to try and find a way and restore his self to his former glory, but after Alina was killed, he has other reasons for the book. I think that his actions on letting the Unseelie out is because he needed them to help find the book. Maybe in exchange for their help he gave them what they asked for without thinking about the consequences that will follow.

lilahlove
07-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Oh! Something just occured to me reading all of you guys' posts. And sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have to know what ya think. What if he now wants the SD to bring Alina back? Remember how he tried to get Mac to come to him by promising to bring her back? Would be a very interesting final book if he succeeds in both gaining the book and resurrecting Alina.

victoria blake
07-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Oh! Something just occured to me reading all of you guys' posts. And sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have to know what ya think. What if he now wants the SD to bring Alina back? Remember how he tried to get Mac to come to him by promising to bring her back? Would be a very interesting final book if he succeeds in both gaining the book and bringing Alina back.

OOOOO!!!!!! I wondered the same thing!!!!!

airbear82
07-12-2009, 11:14 PM
I have mixed feelings about Darroc. On the one hand I think that he loved Alina in his own way, but I still can't help thinking about what Adam says about him in IH when he is describing him to Gabby and Darroc is a liar and deceiver. So i wouldn't put it past him to lead Alina on just so he could get what he needed from her. Also he WATCHED Mac get RAPED and didn't step in and stop it from happening. So, I thought he might be redeemable up to that point but after that I thought no way can I see him being redeemed at all.

rissa_delovely
07-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Oh! Something just occured to me reading all of you guys' posts. And sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have to know what ya think. What if he now wants the SD to bring Alina back? Remember how he tried to get Mac to come to him by promising to bring her back? Would be a very interesting final book if he succeeds in both gaining the book and resurrecting Alina.

Very interesting thought, indeed. :th_nod: That would be crazy if it happens!

marlen
07-12-2009, 11:47 PM
I know that Mac was raped cuz of him, but i wonder, is it as bad as rape with a human? I know rape is rape, but wouldn't it be different with a prince? She becomes mindless with everything but pleasure, and she doesnt think about rape just more and more and more, so i dont know how bad it would be. But seeing as i wish he was redeemed i know many wont agree so i'll shut up now

KJTVH
07-12-2009, 11:59 PM
I don't want to change the topic, but is there a thread discussing what if Darroc were the UK? He could be trying to find the book to regain his powers. I haven't really thought this idea through, it just popped into my head while reading the posts here. I think he did have some feelings for Alina, not sure if they were strong enough to redeem him, but sometimes I do feel that there is a big twist involving Darroc coming. For now, I do think he's mostly bad, and reacting in anger to being made human, and that's probably the main reason he wants the book -- to go back to being Fae and hurt QA out of revenge.

Miakara
07-13-2009, 05:25 AM
Oh! Something just occured to me reading all of you guys' posts. And sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have to know what ya think. What if he now wants the SD to bring Alina back? Remember how he tried to get Mac to come to him by promising to bring her back? Would be a very interesting final book if he succeeds in both gaining the book and resurrecting Alina.

I have to agree with you, I think he wants the book to bring Alina back. also, on Amazon (I know this has been changed slightly now or amended) it gives the impression that Darroc throws her to Barrons and V'lane who are both trying to get her body and soul..it also says that she goes to Georgia where she learns secrets about her sister.... hhmmmm, the plot thickens...I just think that Darroc has a lot of things that work in his favor and make him likeable, why would KMM do that if he was that evil...from the highlander novels we know that Karen has a gift for making the baddest boys good... And Lilahlove...I do believe you are correct...he came in later...after the fourth presence...hmmmm, so glad I asked for help on this one....food for thought

Jill
07-13-2009, 08:28 AM
I agree with Miakara that Darroc, in a very ironic twist of fate, fell in love with Alina. You could be on to something, Miakara, because QA is beginning to understand the power of human love. :notworthy: The reason Darroc's love for Alina is ironic is because in The Immortal Highlander, Darroc expresses such disdain for Adam's feelings for Gabby. At the end of the book, when QA asks Adam for an appropriate punishment for Darroc and Adam suggests turning him human, QA is pleased with Adam's suggestion. We all know that QA has manipulated events and lives within the Keltar clan for centuries just so they can be of service to her. Who's to say that she hasn't been manipulating Darroc? I also find it very convenient that all of a sudden, Alina had this desire to study at Trinity University. Methinks QA is pulling EVERYONE's strings in this series as well as the Highlander series. Another irony here is that QA always faults Adam with interfering in the affairs of mortals. Gotta love her!

I also find it a bit out of character for Darroc to murmur anything. I won't go as far as to say that Darroc is showing remorse at the end of Fae fever, but he did not participate in the rape. Mac thinks about the fourth during the rape scene: "If there was a fourth, I never saw his face. Only felt the strangeness of another, who wasn't quite the same." I thought that Mac was sensing Darroc at this point and perhaps she was sensing his humanity. True, Darroc allowed the rape to occur, but his participation was not the same. The Old Darroc certainly would have participated fully!!! As far as what happened to War, well, I think he is Darroc, and Darroc somehow escaped the icy prison eons ago. He has kind of a personality suited for War, don't you think? The other three, Famine, Pestilence, and Death are described as having copper hair.

Another thing that really creeps me out about their description is their fangs. "I wept tears of blood that scaled my cheeks. I scrubbed at them with my fingers, and they came away seared, crimson. Then the princes' mouths were on my fingertips, with tongues of soothing coolness, and fangs of licking ice..." I believe that here is yet another vampiric reference, perhaps a connection to the Daoine Sith as they are vampiric fae.

SO...who is the REAL threat, the REAL villain of the series? I think it is someone associated with the Draghar or perhaps Lucan Trevayne. Do we know for positive he is dead? Did anyone wait around a day or two and stir his ashes? What if the photo-copied pages of the dark book resurrected him? We know for certain that Darroc approached Lucan with information about the Sinsar Dubh. It would so creep me out if he were the true villain here!!!

gallo
07-13-2009, 09:31 AM
i understand the desire to want to redeem him... but i just dont see it... he just is not a good guy... long before he met alina he was mr. evil trying to take over faery and teaming up with the hunters... he IS the bad guy in Immortal Highlander.... and IMO his "sadness" about alina had to do with losing his divining rod to find the SD, and other OOP's... he wasn't planning on killing her cause he still needed her.... He went evil long before he met alina...

believe me i understand the desire to paint him in a better light... but i just dont see it... my guess ... is he want the SD so bad because he thinks it can get him his powers back... Power is his motivator

CheeseBK
07-13-2009, 09:35 AM
sorry, can't see him as a good guy either. I think darroc exploited alina's naivity and he's eeevil.

Jill
07-13-2009, 10:18 AM
i understand the desire to want to redeem him... but i just dont see it... he just is not a good guy... long before he met alina he was mr. evil trying to take over faery and teaming up with the hunters... he IS the bad guy in Immortal Highlander.... and IMO his "sadness" about alina had to do with losing his divining rod to find the SD, and other OOP's... he wasn't planning on killing her cause he still needed her.... He went evil long before he met alina...


believe me i understand the desire to paint him in a better light... but i just dont see it... my guess ... is he want the SD so bad because he thinks it can get him his powers back... Power is his motivator

True, BUT think about the atrocities Adam has committed. I do think he cares for Alina. Pictures don't lie (the way Mac described his expressions and body language).
I agree power was his motivator in the beginning, but what about now? Do you think his priorities have changed at all since Alina? Do you think that QA had a hand in any of this?


sorry, can't see him as a good guy either. I think darroc exploited alina's naivity and he's eeevil.

...and Adam didn't exploit Gabby? Just playing devil's advocate here because I have a gut feeling there is an evil out there that makes Darroc look like an Eagle Scout :th_nod:...

Butterfly
07-13-2009, 10:23 AM
...and Adam didn't exploit Gabby? Just playing devil's advocate here because I have a gut feeling there is an evil out there that makes Darroc look like an Eagle Scout :th_nod:...

I have to agree with Jill

CheeseBK
07-13-2009, 10:29 AM
...and Adam didn't exploit Gabby? Just playing devil's advocate here because I have a gut feeling there is an evil out there that makes Darroc look like an Eagle Scout :th_nod:...


true he kinda did. still, darroc killed that girl adam wanted, didn't he? just because he could kill her...

I'm not sure if darroc killed alina (actually I'm pretty sure he didn't.. why would he leave a body behind?), but it's my guess that he did exploited her and didn't have true feelings for her.

Wildernessgirl
07-13-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm not sure. I don't think he killed or would have killed Alina and had feelings for her. But regardless he is known for torturing and brutalizing women which is what caused Adam to attempt to kill him which sword resulting in scar. I think he wants Book to get revenge and to become immortal. Even before he became human and met Alina he was trying to overthrow queen and compact.

We think he 's the one who caused walls to crash. Mac sees him on a cliff holding a heart. Why cause the walls to crash if he only wants book to bring back Alina?

I don't think he was the fourth presence but walked in afterwards. I think he is the one who chose to have her raped. Karen mentions that he made good on his threat to take her free will away

However, that being said I can see him redeeming himself in the end by sacrificing himself and dying in process. Maybe.

gallo
07-13-2009, 10:48 AM
[QUOTE=Jill;493769]True, BUT think about the atrocities Adam has committed. I do think he cares for Alina. Pictures don't lie (the way Mac described his expressions and body language).
I agree power was his motivator in the beginning, but what about now? Do you think his priorities have changed at all since Alina? Do you think that QA had a hand in any of this?

I think the difference is that... with the exception of after Circien's mother died... Most (at least the we know of) Adam's meddling with people was related to a preoccupation with humans... he was trying to "help" or in the case of Hawk... was trying to get the king and himself some revenge for their wounded prides... but either way i dont think his motivation was all together nasty... IMO he saw even before he met gabby and could admit it.. something he envied in humans...

Darroc on the other hand... has always had a huge distain for humans... and i am no sure which book its in.. (either Immortal or one of the Fever) it talks about what he likes to do with human women... and its not pretty...

i dont think meeting Alina changed him...and i think if he did develop any sort of feelings for her... those probably pissed him off cause he is supposed to be above that... or his emotions could have been simply the sadness of a toddler who lost or broke his favorite toy... haha... I think if there had been any REAL sort of love/feelings for either Alina or Darroc... when alina left the message for Mac she would not have sounded so afraid...

as to QA... she is forever underestimating the goods and the destructive abilities of humans... for all her time sifting abilities... i think she overlooked with the "regular humans are insignificant" kind of attitude any potential damage darroc could do.... I see her setting the scene for her champions those she feels can save her.... but i dont think she would choose to enable the person who would bring down the walls...


the possibilities are endless! is is august 18th yet :arghhh:

gallo
07-13-2009, 10:53 AM
I'm not sure. I don't think he killed or would have killed Alina and had feelings for her. But regardless he is known for torturing and brutalizing women which is what caused Adam to attempt to kill him which sword resulting in scar. I think he wants Book to get revenge and to become immortal. Even before he became human and met Alina he was trying to overthrow queen and compact.

We think he 's the one who caused walls to crash. Mac sees him on a cliff holding a heart. Why cause the walls to crash if he only wants book to bring back Alina?

I don't think he was the fourth presence but walked in afterwards. I think he is the one who chose to have her raped. Karen mentions that he made good on his threat to take her free will away

However, that being said I can see him redeeming himself in the end by sacrificing himself and dying in process. Maybe.

:th_Clap5: i agree... though honestly i even kinda doubt he will be self sacrificing at the end... but i love a happier ending at any chance so i will hope for that...

BTW... didnt they say in the last book that Seelie couldnt touch Unseelie OOP? so how come Adam could use the sword . . . :shocked:

haha

Jill
07-13-2009, 11:00 AM
true he kinda did. still, darroc killed that girl adam wanted, didn't he? just because he could kill her...

I'm not sure if darroc killed alina (actually I'm pretty sure he didn't.. why would he leave a body behind?), but it's my guess that he did exploited her and didn't have true feelings for her.

Yep, and Adam killed thousands in the Highlands after Morganna's death. There is a reason they were such close buddies. Adam has the advantage over Darroc because he stayed in the human realm more often and spied on them, started developing human emotions. What makes you think, from the books, that Darroc did not have true feelings for her? I admit I could have overlooked something because I am dazzled by his sexah hotness.:swoon:

Jill
07-13-2009, 11:04 AM
:th_Clap5: i agree... though honestly i even kinda doubt he will be self sacrificing at the end... but i love a happier ending at any chance so i will hope for that...

BTW... didnt they say in the last book that Seelie couldnt touch Unseelie OOP? so how come Adam could use the sword . . . :shocked:

haha

See my thread about Adam Black's being the man formerly known as the UK. It is on The Immortal Highlander forum. Also, Adam does not remember all the horrible things he did because he drank from the cauldron 6,000 years ago. But Darroc remembers, as he reminded Adam in IH.

lilahlove
07-13-2009, 12:11 PM
Yep, and Adam killed thousands in the Highlands after Morganna's death. There is a reason they were such close buddies. Adam has the advantage over Darroc because he stayed in the human realm more often and spied on them, started developing human emotions. What makes you think, from the books, that Darroc did not have true feelings for her? I admit I could have overlooked something because I am dazzled by his sexah hotness.:swoon:

I agree. If Adam can change from the evil that he has done and we all accept him, why can't Darroc?? I strongly think that Alina changed Darroc's hatred of humans. Yeah, he might be arrogant, but he's former fae, right?? It's to be expected! :th_nod:

Jill
07-13-2009, 12:19 PM
I agree. If Adam can change from the evil that he has done and we all accept him, why can't Darroc?? I strongly think that Alina changed Darroc's hatred of humans. Yeah, he might be arrogant, but he's former fae, right?? It's to be expected! :th_nod:
Methinks I can live with the arrogance as the rest of the package is so sexah-hot!!!

lilahlove
07-13-2009, 12:27 PM
Methinks I can live with the arrogance as the rest of the package is so sexah-hot!!!

:wlaugh: Well, I'll be sure and leave him to you. I'm a Barrons girl! LOL

CheeseBK
07-13-2009, 12:36 PM
Yep, and Adam killed thousands in the Highlands after Morganna's death. There is a reason they were such close buddies. Adam has the advantage over Darroc because he stayed in the human realm more often and spied on them, started developing human emotions. What makes you think, from the books, that Darroc did not have true feelings for her? I admit I could have overlooked something because I am dazzled by his sexah hotness.:swoon:

I think that to some extent alina was suspicious about darroc too. or why hadn't she told him about her beloved little sister? maybe there was a little unconscious reservation, I don't know.

I can't base my suspicion an anything I read in the books, reallly. It's just a feeling. If it turns out I'm wrong, well, then I'm wrong :smile:

hdbiker
07-13-2009, 12:43 PM
i understand the desire to want to redeem him... but i just dont see it... he just is not a good guy... long before he met alina he was mr. evil trying to take over faery and teaming up with the hunters... he IS the bad guy in Immortal Highlander.... and IMO his "sadness" about alina had to do with losing his divining rod to find the SD, and other OOP's... he wasn't planning on killing her cause he still needed her.... He went evil long before he met alina...

believe me i understand the desire to paint him in a better light... but i just dont see it... my guess ... is he want the SD so bad because he thinks it can get him his powers back... Power is his motivator

I agree with everything you just wrote!! He is NOT a good guy. How can anyone possibly justify rape? I don't give a crap if he wasn't the one who did the bad deed, he was still there and was the one behind the whole thing! And I don't really think he had any feelings for Alina either, all she was to him was a tool in finding the SD. And your right he has always been evil, and was way before he met Alina.

Mercedes Veronica
07-13-2009, 01:03 PM
As far as what happened to War, well, I think he is Darroc, and Darroc somehow escaped the icy prison eons ago. He has kind of a personality suited for War, don't you think? The other three, Famine, Pestilence, and Death are described as having copper hair.

V'lane explains in either BF or FF that Darroc was a trusted member of the Queen's Council, so he was definately seelie. And not a prince.

Also, I believe V'lane also explained why the lesser Un could escape the prison walls and the higher up Un (like the 4 princes) could not. Something about the power bouncing off the inside of the wall and coming back at them with equal force. So it stands to reason that the lesser Uns cld escape while the higher ups couldn't.

My guess is that there is something...wrong with War. Something that makes him different even from the others.

Other than that, I agree that Darroc finally fell in love and now understood Adam and his love for Morganna and Gabby. However, why still bring the walls down? Does he want his power back and Alina? He may have loved her in his own way, but maybe not enough to care about the human world at all. At least not at the expense of regaining his power. But there cld be an alternate reason as to letting down the walls.
And this is comin from someone who could care less if he is redeemed or not. All I care about is Barrons getting his HEA. :wwink: Preferrably w/ Mac. (well, ok, w/ me but i'm not in the fiction world so I can't :cry:) I love Barrons all the way and understood him from the beginning. He's soooo my dream man!
...I guess there's something wrong w/ wanting a fictional character so badly :jiggy: but i'm really not sure I wanna be cured....:smile:

But I digress.

Something I also thought of, if he knew Alina well, and he does bring her back (if he gets his hands on the SD--but we don't who'll get it yet) what in the world makes him think that Alina will still wanna be w/ him after she see's all that he's done (i.e. ALLOWING her sister's rape and bringing down the walls and making Dublin a Dark Zone)? does he think to voice her?? If he does, i can assure it it won't be the same as love. There will always be something missing from her touch, from her eyes. Like in Fantasy Lover by Sherrilyn Kenyon w/ Julian's past with Penelope. Point being, in the end he wouldn't be satisfied. There is something to be said of having ppl coming to you, loving you, respecting you of their own free will and not controlled, or out of fear.
if he is redeemed, i can only see it as him sacrificing himself, his life and his power and he'd probably do it for Alina.

analisa
07-13-2009, 02:06 PM
And this is comin from someone who could care less if he is redeemed or not. All I care about is Barrons getting his HEA. :wwink: Preferrably w/ Mac. (well, ok, w/ me but i'm not in the fiction world so I can't :cry:) I love Barrons all the way and understood him from the beginning. He's soooo my dream man!
...I guess there's something wrong w/ wanting a fictional character so badly :jiggy: but i'm really not sure I wanna be cured....:smile:



I'm sooo with you on this one, lol !!!

So I'm delusional ... who cares??


:anim_nana-vi:

Mercedes Veronica
07-13-2009, 02:21 PM
I'm sooo with you on this one, lol !!!

So I'm delusional ... who cares??


:anim_nana-vi:

Proud of it baby!!!

Jus glad I'm not alone!

Jill
07-13-2009, 06:37 PM
So many of you are so quick to hate Darroc, but you LOVE Barrons when YOU DON'T KNOW HARDLY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM!!!! Let's talk about what we know for sure: He is using Mac to get the Dark Book and other Fae OOP's. (I guess it's okay, because he is Barrons). Barrons killed the woman he brought out of the mirror (oh, Barrons *sighs*, you are SO RIGHT for Mac!) Barrons slams Mac up against walls, tattoos her without her permission, and bruises her ribs, intimidates her, places her in danger (oooo, baby! Bruise me ONE MORE TIME!!!!) WTH? How can you be so quick to judge Darroc (which I admit, he has done many despicable things), yet you so badly want this poor girl who has been through hell to end up with Barrons strictly because he is hot and dangerous!?!? WELL SO WAS TED BUNDY!!!! Is it because Barrons is dark and handsome? Do you not like copper hair? Would ANY of you want your daughters to date someone like Barrons? I want to apologize for hijacking this post, but you cannot say in all honesty that Barrons is a good guy based on what you know to be true about him. Rape is wrong, and so is abuse, both mental, physical, and psychological. You think he's great because he keeps saving Mac's life? He only saves her life so he can continue to use her (as his OOP detector) and abuse her. Abusers don't like for their abusees to die. And if any of you post that it is because he painted Mac's nails, well I say SO WHAT!?!?!? I hope Mac kicks his @$$!!! I had MUCH rather Mac end up with V'lane (but only if Viking Princess finds her Highlander on her Scotland trip and dumps V'lane!!!)

lilahlove
07-13-2009, 07:11 PM
WELL SO WAS TED BUNDY!!!!

:rofl4: You tell it, girlfriend!

Iona
07-13-2009, 07:12 PM
I'm with airbear on this. It would be nice to see Darroc redeemed but I think he's just bad to the bone. Bottom line is he used Alina to her detriment, that's not love in my book. Mac sees him holding up a bloody heart before the walls fall, I mean yuk!, what kind of redeemable character could do that. I think he's a very scary psychopath & I worry about our Highlanders with him around (especially Drustan).

I suspect the 5 druids may be Drustan, Daegus, Christopher (?), Cian & Adam.

gallo
07-13-2009, 07:14 PM
:biglaugh: for the record... the way you phrased that makes any opposing view seem like we are justifying the positives of a serial killer... :biglaugh:

but here goes anyway...

i am not saying Barrons is great... He is an unknown... he certainly DID those things you mentioned... but his motivation may or may not be entirely selfish... we just dont know yet... but when you think about it...if you have to get a spoiled southern debutant to believe in the seriousness of the situation she is in... and have like a day to do it... sometimes Tough "love" is the only way to go about it... (granted... he crosses the line on a number of occasions) or perhaps after living so emotionally shut down because of unknown hurt/loss/grief/pain thats all he has... idk... but the fact that he and his motives are still up in the air... makes him more likable than someone who certainly seems to be the big stinky evil...

with darroc... we see... what ...1 or 2 sentences that could give us a tiny sliver of a hope that he might not be so bad... in spite of everything else we KNOW he has done and is STILL DOING that is evil... i mean the guy brought down the freaking WALL... he let the US out of their prison to rape and destroy... HE orchastrated the slaughter of thousands and thousands of dubliners... and thats just in FF....

also barrons motives aside... he does keep Mac alive... which is more than we can say for darroc and alina...

gallo
07-13-2009, 07:17 PM
but i agree with you... Mac needs to kick his ass... lmao

he has it coming.... but it would seem a wrestling match with barrons and mac tend to end up naked and with some one being pinned by someone lmao

KJTVH
07-13-2009, 07:20 PM
So many of you are so quick to hate Darroc, but you LOVE Barrons when YOU DON'T KNOW HARDLY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM!!!! Let's talk about what we know for sure: He is using Mac to get the Dark Book and other Fae OOP's. (I guess it's okay, because he is Barrons). Barrons killed the woman he brought out of the mirror (oh, Barrons *sighs*, you are SO RIGHT for Mac!) Barrons slams Mac up against walls, tattoos her without her permission, and bruises her ribs, intimidates her, places her in danger (oooo, baby! Bruise me ONE MORE TIME!!!!) WTH? How can you be so quick to judge Darroc (which I admit, he has done many despicable things), yet you so badly want this poor girl who has been through hell to end up with Barrons strictly because he is hot and dangerous!?!? WELL SO WAS TED BUNDY!!!! Is it because Barrons is dark and handsome? Do you not like copper hair? Would ANY of you want your daughters to date someone like Barrons? I want to apologize for hijacking this post, but you cannot say in all honesty that Barrons is a good guy based on what you know to be true about him. Rape is wrong, and so is abuse, both mental, physical, and psychological. You think he's great because he keeps saving Mac's life? He only saves her life so he can continue to use her (as his OOP detector) and abuse her. Abusers don't like for their abusees to die. And if any of you post that it is because he painted Mac's nails, well I say SO WHAT!?!?!? I hope Mac kicks his @$$!!! I had MUCH rather Mac end up with V'lane (but only if Viking Princess finds her Highlander on her Scotland trip and dumps V'lane!!!)


I just have to say that you make me laugh out loud sometimes! :wlaugh:

Jill
07-13-2009, 07:37 PM
I just have to say that you make me laugh out loud sometimes! :wlaugh:

Nifty! I aim to please :s16:

Wildernessgirl
07-13-2009, 09:10 PM
See my thread about Adam Black's being the man formerly known as the UK. It is on The Immortal Highlander forum. Also, Adam does not remember all the horrible things he did because he drank from the cauldron 6,000 years ago. But Darroc remembers, as he reminded Adam in IH.

He did ravage the highlands after Morganna's death but that occurred within the last 1500 years. He hasn't forgotten that and even mentions it. He mentions as well besides that instance he always killed for a reason not just the pleasure of killing.

I agree that Adam has done some horrible things but the difference between him and Darroc is that Adam has grown and learned and Darroc hasn't. Maybe meeting Alina has changed him. I think it says quite a bit that he cared for a human after his anger and hatred of Adam for liking humans. But what does it say that he would have the sister of a loved one raped to serve his own motives?

Many of her characters have done things that are questionable. Dageus stole artifacts and kidnapped Chloe, Cian tried to Voice what's her name to have sex with him, etc. But no one has gone to the same extremes that Darroc has. I mean come one he had the sister of someone he's is supposed to love gang raped. Besides he doesn't need to make the walls fall to find the Book and bring Alina back.

We don't know that much about Jericho but there is a passage where Mac states that when she listens to her heart rather than her head it tells her Jericho can be trusted. He's has done things that are wrong but he's redeemable and not evil. Evil is a lost cause. I think Karen is saying we can trust Jericho.

The same goes for when you compare their actions. Jericho has always looked out for Mac and saved her numerous times and when he thought she was dying was overcome with sorrow and regret and even panicked at the thought of losing her. It was not related to losing his OOP detector if that were the case he would be more angry than anything. He also watched over her when she was staying hostel before she moved into bookstore. He hasn't voiced her very often and only wanted to tattoo her for her own protection. If he hadn't she would have been killed which she evens admits to herself. He bought all the things she requested. He didn't force her to got to Scotland, gave her tickets home and asked her to stay at bookstore. I think he's trying and he does care for her but not sure how to go about it if he were to admit to himself that he has feelings for her.

The only thing I have seen from Darroc is rape, torture, etc. I think he might be redeemed and do something self sacrificing and be killed. Maybe he's good but if so I need more to back it up. Right now his actions don't speak very well for him and he has a long way to go to make up for them.

analisa
07-13-2009, 11:05 PM
peace and love sisters, :th_nod: peace and love and to each their own ...

at least I think that's the phrase that fits ...:skeptical:

gallo
07-13-2009, 11:12 PM
nothing but love haha... i love a good debate about anything... to the point that my family on occasion will say to me... would you just stop... you dont even believe what you are staying lol...

to which i respond... i may not... but i respect the right of whoever does...things are always more fun if you look at them from every possible perspective... lol...

Wildernessgirl
07-13-2009, 11:21 PM
nothing but love haha... i love a good debate about anything... to the point that my family on occasion will say to me... would you just stop... you dont even believe what you are staying lol...

to which i respond... i may not... but i respect the right of whoever does...things are always more fun if you look at them from every possible perspective... lol...

Lol :wlaugh:!!! I agree! I love debating. I don't mean to offend anyone. I like playing devil's advocate and seeing things from as many perspectives as possible. It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't agree with me.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I think he might be redeemable but in a self sacrificing dead kind of way.

gallo
07-13-2009, 11:35 PM
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I think he might be redeemable but in a self sacrificing dead kind of way.



i am very willing to hope for that... in a very dead sort of way haha.... :60:

Wildernessgirl
07-13-2009, 11:39 PM
i am very willing to hope for that... in a very dead sort of way haha.... :60:

Exactly...as in dead as a doornail kind of way...lol...okay we better make a run for it before Jill reads this or we will be dead as well :snick:.

Viking Princess
07-13-2009, 11:48 PM
I posted my thoughts on this here:
http://www.karenmoning.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14995

lilahlove
07-14-2009, 12:54 AM
I posted my thoughts on this here:
http://www.karenmoning.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14995

Wow, VP, great insight. I love your points on his pros and cons.

I do get hung up on the whole rape scene, though. Idk, I think there is more to it than what we were shown, but I could be grasping at straws here. It just doesn't make sense to me why the Unseelie princes would follow orders from Darroc, a mere human who eats unseelie. I mean, they are full fae, and from what I gather have no qualms, morals, or ethics. So even if he let them out of prison, I don't see that as a reason why they would - or even could - feel obligated to help or follow him.

Wildernessgirl
07-14-2009, 02:17 AM
Wow, VP, great insight. I love your points on his pros and cons.

I do get hung up on the whole rape scene, though. Idk, I think there is more to it than what we were shown, but I could be grasping at straws here. It just doesn't make sense to me why the Unseelie princes would follow orders from Darroc, a mere human who eats unseelie. I mean, they are full fae, and from what I gather have no qualms, morals, or ethics. So even if he let them out of prison, I don't see that as a reason why they would - or even could - feel obligated to help or follow him.

Unless there is more to it than just letting them out. He wants the Sinsar Dubh as well. I think they might follow him if with the help of a sidhe seer turned pri-ya can help them find the book. Of course with the book they would have every name of fae, song of making, etc. I'm sure they want revenge just as much as Darroc does.

Of course Darroc might be takimg orders from someone who they will follow as well. The preview for next book says there is something waiting for her in Ashford and whatever or whoever it is sounds sinster and much darker and more evil than Darroc. Scary, huh?

lilahlove
07-14-2009, 02:38 AM
Unless there is more to it than just letting them out. He wants the Sinsar Dubh as well. I think they might follow him if with the help of a sidhe seer turned pri-ya can help them find the book. Of course with the book they would have every name of fae, song of making, etc. I'm sure they want revenge just as much as Darroc does.

Of course Darroc might be takimg orders from someone who they will follow as well. The preview for next book says there is something waiting for her in Ashford and whatever or whoever it is sounds sinster and much darker and more evil than Darroc. Scary, huh?

That was my thought, that maybe there is a third party behind the scenes! I wonder who it would be...dun, dun, dun. :snick:

Jill
07-14-2009, 04:21 AM
Lol :wlaugh:!!! I agree! I love debating. I don't mean to offend anyone. I like playing devil's advocate and seeing things from as many perspectives as possible. It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't agree with me.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I think he might be redeemable but in a self sacrificing dead kind of way.

No, apparently I am the devil's advocate on this forum :s5:

Jill
07-14-2009, 04:28 AM
Thanks, Viking Princess, for posting a link to your thread about Darroc.:notworthy:



That was my thought, that maybe there is a third party behind the scenes! I wonder who it would be...dun, dun, dun. :snick:

There must be a third party. I think it is someone in the draghar or possibly Lucan Trevayne himself.:biglaugh: Methinks the Keltar clan forgot to make sure he was good and dead....rather than just, plain, DEAD.....like.....stirring his ashes with a stick DEAD:skeptical:

Sky28
07-14-2009, 05:07 AM
My guess is that there is something...wrong with War. Something that makes him different even from the others.

Other than that, I agree that Darroc finally fell in love and now understood Adam and his love for Morganna and Gabby. However, why still bring the walls down? Does he want his power back and Alina? He may have loved her in his own way, but maybe not enough to care about the human world at all. At least not at the expense of regaining his power. But there cld be an alternate reason as to letting down the walls.
And this is comin from someone who could care less if he is redeemed or not. All I care about is Barrons getting his HEA. :wwink: Preferrably w/ Mac. (well, ok, w/ me but i'm not in the fiction world so I can't :cry:) I love Barrons all the way and understood him from the beginning. He's soooo my dream man!
...I guess there's something wrong w/ wanting a fictional character so badly :jiggy: but i'm really not sure I wanna be cured....:smile:

But I digress.

Something I also thought of, if he knew Alina well, and he does bring her back (if he gets his hands on the SD--but we don't who'll get it yet) what in the world makes him think that Alina will still wanna be w/ him after she see's all that he's done (i.e. ALLOWING her sister's rape and bringing down the walls and making Dublin a Dark Zone)? does he think to voice her?? If he does, i can assure it it won't be the same as love. There will always be something missing from her touch, from her eyes. Like in Fantasy Lover by Sherrilyn Kenyon w/ Julian's past with Penelope. Point being, in the end he wouldn't be satisfied. There is something to be said of having ppl coming to you, loving you, respecting you of their own free will and not controlled, or out of fear.
if he is redeemed, i can only see it as him sacrificing himself, his life and his power and he'd probably do it for Alina.
Just two small thoughts:
1. Darroc is human with human feelings just for 5 years know. Maybe he interprets a lot still wrong.
2. What did the UK of (what he thought) good feelings for his mortal love. Things she would have hated him for.

1butterfly
07-14-2009, 07:55 AM
I have mixed feelings about Darroc. On the one hand I think that he loved Alina in his own way, but I still can't help thinking about what Adam says about him in IH when he is describing him to Gabby and Darroc is a liar and deceiver. So i wouldn't put it past him to lead Alina on just so he could get what he needed from her. Also he WATCHED Mac get RAPED and didn't step in and stop it from happening. So, I thought he might be redeemable up to that point but after that I thought no way can I see him being redeemed at all.

I agree, I even think maybe he did love Alina but I don't think that would have stood in the way of a former fae's selfish desires. His nature would not have changed just because he was now mortal. I think he's simply a complex character capable of love and treachery.

hdbiker
07-14-2009, 11:36 AM
So many of you are so quick to hate Darroc, but you LOVE Barrons when YOU DON'T KNOW HARDLY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM!!!! Let's talk about what we know for sure: He is using Mac to get the Dark Book and other Fae OOP's. (I guess it's okay, because he is Barrons). Barrons killed the woman he brought out of the mirror (oh, Barrons *sighs*, you are SO RIGHT for Mac!) Barrons slams Mac up against walls, tattoos her without her permission, and bruises her ribs, intimidates her, places her in danger (oooo, baby! Bruise me ONE MORE TIME!!!!) WTH? How can you be so quick to judge Darroc (which I admit, he has done many despicable things), yet you so badly want this poor girl who has been through hell to end up with Barrons strictly because he is hot and dangerous!?!? WELL SO WAS TED BUNDY!!!! Is it because Barrons is dark and handsome? Do you not like copper hair? Would ANY of you want your daughters to date someone like Barrons? I want to apologize for hijacking this post, but you cannot say in all honesty that Barrons is a good guy based on what you know to be true about him. Rape is wrong, and so is abuse, both mental, physical, and psychological. You think he's great because he keeps saving Mac's life? He only saves her life so he can continue to use her (as his OOP detector) and abuse her. Abusers don't like for their abusees to die. And if any of you post that it is because he painted Mac's nails, well I say SO WHAT!?!?!? I hope Mac kicks his @$$!!! I had MUCH rather Mac end up with V'lane (but only if Viking Princess finds her Highlander on her Scotland trip and dumps V'lane!!!)

WOW, a little on the defensive side here aren't we?

snowstorm
07-14-2009, 01:12 PM
as I said in another post about Darroc he's not another Adam;
Can't see him being made a hero after he has been thoroughly, explicitly and repeatedly villianized;
made out to be an evil monster in most of the books by:
1) organizing the gang rape
2) killing of thousands of Dubliners (not counting the individual ones)
3) sadistically killing many women throughtout the ages.
4) who knows where and how he had that bloody heart on Halloween.

Derek said
"wait till you see what the LM has in store for you.... trick or treat bitch" he said then laughed.
IH
He'd seen what Darroc had done to her......
Sadistically broken and forever silienced. Her death hadn't come easy.....
Her murder had been an act of bitter senselss violence.

He's on a slippery slide into US HELL :anim_devil-vi:and I'd like to give him a push on the way down.:th_devil:

Sorry Jill. I hope he ends up doing something to redeem himself and to stop all the evil he has/is doing, but he might have to die to do it.:sad1:

You're right we don't have a typical hero to choose from. They've all done things to Mac, including V'lane.

Jill
07-14-2009, 01:28 PM
WOW, a little on the defensive side here aren't we?

Don't ya know it, baby!!! Always for the Lord Master :wwink:!!!

And Snowstorm, I hope he sees the error of his ways, too, and joins the right side of the fight!!!! He is way too hot to be so EVIL!!!

snowstorm
07-14-2009, 01:39 PM
And Snowstorm, I hope he sees the error of his ways, too, and joins the right side of the fight!!!! He is way too hot to be so EVIL!!!

yah he's probably going to get even hotter :anim_devil-vi:
:snick::snick:

Jill
07-14-2009, 02:19 PM
yah he's probably going to get even hotter :anim_devil-vi:
:snick::snick:

:shocked:NNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not THAT! I had a thought.....it still isn't too late to sign Darroc up for Vacation Bible School :biglaugh:!!!

*brb*

Okay....LM said he would go if he could take a few rhino boys with him to ensure victory during rec time :skeptical: Methinks this might not work out....

Wildernessgirl
07-14-2009, 03:41 PM
as I said in another post about Darroc he's not another Adam;
Can't see him being made a hero after he has been thoroughly, explicitly and repeatedly villianized;
made out to be an evil monster in most of the books by:
1) organizing the gang rape
2) killing of thousands of Dubliners (not counting the individual ones)
3) sadistically killing many women throughtout the ages.
4) who knows where and how he had that bloody heart on Halloween.

Derek said
IH

He's on a slippery slide into US HELL :anim_devil-vi:and I'd like to give him a push on the way down.:th_devil:

Sorry Jill. I hope he ends up doing something to redeem himself and to stop all the evil he has/is doing, but he might have to die to do it.:sad1:

You're right we don't have a typical hero to choose from. They've all done things to Mac, including V'lane.

Very well put. I was thinking the same thing regarding him not being another Adam. Her other chacacters are flawed but not in the same way as Darroc. Despte some of things they have done the reader likes the character and is pulling for him. Cian, Dageus are good examples.

I even think in the passage I mentioned regarding Jericho and Mac saying that she knew in her heart he could trust and there was a difference between doing some bad things and being evil that Karen was comparing Jericho to Darroc. Darroc being evil and as Karen put it a lost cause and Jericho who has done some bad things but can be redeemed.

Wildernessgirl
07-14-2009, 03:43 PM
:shocked:NNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not THAT! I had a thought.....it still isn't too late to sign Darroc up for Vacation Bible School :biglaugh:!!!

*brb*

Okay....LM said he would go if he could take a few rhino boys with him to ensure victory during rec time :skeptical: Methinks this might not work out....

Lol :wlaugh:!!!

Sky28
07-14-2009, 04:18 PM
:shocked:NNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not THAT! I had a thought.....it still isn't too late to sign Darroc up for Vacation Bible School :biglaugh:!!!
Jill, are you gonna start a "101 ways to piss of Darroc" thread?
Not you, Brute?! LOL.
Maybe you should call him Lord Dark Helmet (from Spaceballs) instead of Lord Master then. :biglaugh:
Duck and run.

CheeseBK
07-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Jill, are you gonna start a "101 ways to piss of Darroc" thread?
Not you, Brute?! LOL.
Maybe you should call him Lord Dark Helmet (from Spaceballs) instead of Lord Master then. :biglaugh:
Duck and run.


*envisioning lord helmet* oh heavens. *GGGGGGGGG* :snick:

Jill
07-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Jill, are you gonna start a "101 ways to piss of Darroc" thread?
Not you, Brute?! LOL.
Maybe you should call him Lord Dark Helmet (from Spaceballs) instead of Lord Master then. :biglaugh:
Duck and run.

The LM must NOT be pissed off ever :wno:.... He lost his sense of humor when Alina was killed!!! IDK...do you want to start the thread? I'll participate...it could be fun.... :wbiggrin:....but I get first dibs on Vacation Bible School!!!:snick:

gallo
07-14-2009, 04:59 PM
dont worry Jill... its a LOT of work deluding yourself... :wwink:

but you are right... its never a good idea to piss off the evil guys hahaha

V'lane_Obsession
07-15-2009, 01:04 AM
:shocked:NNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not THAT! I had a thought.....it still isn't too late to sign Darroc up for Vacation Bible School :biglaugh:!!!

*brb*

Okay....LM said he would go if he could take a few rhino boys with him to ensure victory during rec time :skeptical: Methinks this might not work out....

:wno: And I had such high hope for him. Maybe if he did bring the a couple of rhino boys they would make great additions to the choir. Some ushers too...

Sky28
07-15-2009, 01:20 PM
IDK...do you want to start the thread? I'll participate...it could be fun.... :wbiggrin:....but I get first dibs on Vacation Bible School!!!:snick:
It is done. Now it' s your turn to start, dear.
Than I will add mine.

Jill
07-15-2009, 02:46 PM
It is done. Now it' s your turn to start, dear.
Than I will add mine.

*squee* I love it!!!!

DoberDawn
07-15-2009, 04:11 PM
I want Darroc redeemed.... why? Cuz RJ aka Jill is my friend and I don't want to have her locked up in the bampot sanitorium if they have to kill off Darroc in the final book. LOL

gallo
07-15-2009, 04:14 PM
I want Darroc redeemed.... why? Cuz RJ aka Jill is my friend and I don't want to have her locked up in the bampot sanitorium if they have to kill off Darroc in the final book. LOL

:rofl4:

Jill
07-15-2009, 07:55 PM
I want Darroc redeemed.... why? Cuz RJ aka Jill is my friend and I don't want to have her locked up in the bampot sanitorium if they have to kill off Darroc in the final book. LOL

Yea....shock treatments scare me!:wacko:

snowstorm
07-16-2009, 12:04 AM
Yea....shock treatments scare me!:wacko:

We'll visit often and bring chocolates.
:smileychocobunnymun errrr.... if we don't eat them on the way.

If the ending of DMF is more intense than FF we might all be in there with you.:twitcy:

Leiha
07-16-2009, 01:12 AM
A healthy debate is wonderful. Let's make sure to keep it friendly and not hurt anyone's feelings. We are all entitled to our opinions but make sure you are sensitive to others in how you express it.

snowstorm
07-16-2009, 02:03 AM
I hope that something I said didn't hurt any ones feelings.
I try to use the right smiles to show I'm just kidding around.
If it was me, I'm really sorry.
:grouphug:

Stapes
07-16-2009, 02:08 AM
you so badly want this poor girl who has been through hell to end up with Barrons strictly because he is hot and dangerous!?!? Is it because Barrons is dark and handsome?

:th_heat: Umm, yes and yes.

CheeseBK
07-16-2009, 03:21 AM
:smileychocobunnymun errrr.... if we don't eat them on the way.

:

I'm in love with that smiley ;) *lol* that's exactly how I behave at easter *lol*

Is it august yet? no? but soon, soon we'll have the book and we will find out more. my gut says darroc is not going to be redeemed, but hey, we will see...

Jill
07-16-2009, 07:55 AM
:th_heat: Umm, yes and yes.

ROFL!!!!:rofl4:

Jill
07-16-2009, 07:58 AM
A healthy debate is wonderful. Let's make sure to keep it friendly and not hurt anyone's feelings. We are all entitled to our opinions but make sure you are sensitive to others in how you express it.

Yes, m'am!!!! :sad3: I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings!!!!

analisa
07-16-2009, 02:16 PM
A healthy debate is wonderful. Let's make sure to keep it friendly and not hurt anyone's feelings. We are all entitled to our opinions but make sure you are sensitive to others in how you express it.
Thank you sweetie.

DoberDawn
07-16-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't know what Leiha's talking about... When I want you to have an opinion, I'll give it to you!!! :rofl4:

So, does this mean I can't be friends with RJ and we do have to lock her up in the sanitorium????? I tried to be gentle in mentioning the place. I didn't even bring up the STRAIGHT JACKETS, PADDED CELLS, AND LARGE MEAN NURSES WITH NEEDLES!!!!!!!

Jill
07-16-2009, 02:36 PM
So, does this mean I can't be friends with RJ and we do have to lock her up in the sanitorium????? I tried to be gentle in mentioning the place. I didn't even bring up the STRAIGHT JACKETS, PADDED CELLS, AND LARGE MEAN NURSES WITH NEEDLES!!!!!!!

:th_crazy::shocked:

angboys3
07-26-2009, 08:46 PM
However, that being said I can see him redeeming himself in the end by sacrificing himself and dying in process. Maybe.


I agree. I am a little late to this thread but after again listening to audio of SOTH and TIH recently. I am really questioning why QA left Darroc his memories, she had a purpose for leaving him with them. If it was so he could be sorry remembering how powerful he used to be, why didn't she get involved when she realized he went to see Lucan (I don't see how she could have missed it since she was keeping an eye on Cian and Lucan) I also think she could more than handle Darroc by herself if he is the true bad villian behind everything.

There is a reason she hasn't confronted him, she needs him for some reason. Maybe because without him, Mac doesn't gain her full power. I'm thinking Darroc might do a Anakin Skywalker. Darth Vader was such a villian the whole star wars series and then at the end he is redeemed and kills the emperor and saves the day. That leaves us with who the true villian is in the series, the book maybe? It's self aware, remember. It gets people to do its bidding and seems to have it's own agenda.

Jill
07-26-2009, 11:33 PM
I agree. I am a little late to this thread but after again listening to audio of SOTH and TIH recently. I am really questioning why QA left Darroc his memories, she had a purpose for leaving him with them. If it was so he could be sorry remembering how powerful he used to be, why didn't she get involved when she realized he went to see Lucan (I don't see how she could have missed it since she was keeping an eye on Cian and Lucan) I also think she could more than handle Darroc by herself if he is the true bad villian behind everything.

There is a reason she hasn't confronted him, she needs him for some reason. Maybe because without him, Mac doesn't gain her full power. I'm thinking Darroc might do a Anakin Skywalker. Darth Vader was such a villian the whole star wars series and then at the end he is redeemed and kills the emperor and saves the day. That leaves us with who the true villian is in the series, the book maybe? It's self aware, remember. It gets people to do its bidding and seems to have it's own agenda.

:60::notworthy:

Mercedes Veronica
07-27-2009, 03:08 AM
Jill--
I can see why you wld say that about Barrons. B/c on the surface, it definately appears to be that way. So I do give you that. Matter of fact, I agree with that.

But the key word was surface.
There's a lot more to Barrons that meets the eye. A lot that is unexplained, first off. But some explained as well. After rereading KMM's fever series a few days ago, she does more or less explain some of his actions. Well, obviously not some of the more, i don't what to call it, but some things need a little more explaining b/c, granted, he does cross the line a few times.
However, one would truly have to understand tough LOVE to get some of what Barrons does.
Also, I do believe KMM hints that Mac means more to Barrons than what meets the eyes. I wld love to give you the exact sentences, but I don't really have the time to go back and search for it all. But here's what I could come up with from the top of my head:
He actually cried when Malluce pretty much beat her to death and he said that he wld have never wished this for her. He also told her that he didn't NEED an OOP decter, that though it's helpful, he was doing fine on his own and wld continue to do so. Read?? There was more to the reason why he keeps saving her life (and actually getting emotional when something happens to her). He's also let it be known that he was broken once, and that he has loved lost many things! This tells me that due to so much pain in his past, he has shut down emotionally in order to protect himself, and that somehow, Mac keeps getting through the Fort Knox around his heart. I understand all this about him, b/c I too have done the same. I had to learn the hard lessons that he had too learn and that Mac is beginning to learn now. After going through sooo much, most would be hardened like he is as well. And tough love wld become your style.

Being a victim of both verbal and physical abuse at one point, it's easy to see only those things in Barrons and nothing else. But if one opened their eyes a little wider, took a deeper look, and was open to see things they didn't want to see....One would see that that there's a lot more to what's behind Barrons' actions then what Jill mentioned.
Also, not to be mean or anything, but we truly don't know enough about Darroc to think he really is redeemable. Unless it's b/c he's so handsome. If that's the case, then the same Jill said about Barrons can be said about Darroc. I mean, not even mentioning the other stuff he did, look at how he treated Alina and allowed for Mac's rape. Seriously??? At least Barrons (as of yet) doesn't condone rape. It's like calling the pot black.

I wld get deeper into it all, but it wld be one LONG post. Lol. My point is that I don't want Mac to end up with Barrons b/c he's hot and dangerous. That's wayyy too superficial, and not enough to be w/ someone, imho anyways. That's also purely emotional and not very, iono, sound logic to be with someone.

Frankly, I think it wld be nice if Darroc was redeemed. I really wish he really had fallen in love with Alina. But emotions aside, I think (but could be very wrong) that the only way he cld be redeemable is if he sacrificed his life :sad1:
It'd also be nice if he was redeemed simply b/c I wldn't want Jill or any of Darroc's fans to end up instituntionalized or whatever! I want them to have their HEA too!
Same w/ those who are all for V'lane. :) I wld genuinely love it if all of KMM's fans cld have the ending they want. (obviously they all can't be with Mac, but hopefully V'lane get's his own story, and Darroc is somehow redeemed, and Barron's get his HEA and christian gets his story too!---or some other kind of compromise). The same way other's feel about Darroc and V'lane, I feel for Barrons, so I understand.

I hope I did not offend in my post, and if I did, I apologize! I'm very sorry!!!

Lady Gryphon
07-27-2009, 06:15 AM
I am in no way on the Darroc band wagon, nor do I believe he is a fluffy bunny, but that being said...

The way I read FF, Mac is aware of others entering the anteroom. Who's to say that Darroc wasn't one of those? I don't think he watched, or directly orchestrated the rape. Indirectly, heck ya. Do I think he had feelings for Alina? Yeah, I do. He didn't kill her and while we can argue that was just because he needed her to find the book, we can all agree Karen doesn't share all her characters' motivations with us.

Very sneaky in that way. :notworthy:

There are no black and white hats for our men in this series. All of them have varying shades of gray. Barrons is by no means a boy scout. (But I still love him anyway) V'Lane, something hinky with him as well. All very self serving.

I remember a long time ago, before this series started, and Karen was writing the Highlander series, I was looking around her website,...boy has it changed...that she was joking because Darroc was whining at her. Every time I think of him being evil I remember that. Don't know why.

I can in no way read what Karen's going to do, but knowing how much she loves to tease and bait and switch with us, is it too hard to imagine there isn't a redemption in store for him?

If I am wrong and he's the BIG BADDIE, I'll shrug and admit I was wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But I like the idea of him having a grain of decency in him. Keeps me from fearing the dark so much. LOL

I personally would like to see him redeemed. But then again, when I write I can't keep my baddies in their evil boxes either.

Kris

Nurslings
07-27-2009, 11:13 AM
If Darroc is not the big badass villain of the series... then who is?

Jill
07-27-2009, 12:10 PM
LOL Mercedes Veronica, I have intentionally been calling Darroc "his hotness the Lord Master" strictly because all the Barrons fans talk about is his being hot and sexy. I would never condone rape, either, but I also do not condone murder. We do know that Barrons killed the woman he brought out of the mirror, but we do not know (yet) if it was murder. Again, Karen has not won me over to the Barrons bandwagon yet because she has not given me enough information....YET. And I have quantified most of my posts with the word "yet" *I think*:skeptical: Anyway, I do believe that Darroc loved Alina. I also agree that he might be sacrificed in order to gain his redemption. And Nurslings, I do believe that there is a much worse threat out there to Mac than even Darroc. I am probably wrong, but that's what I think. I believe the Draghar are dangerous, if there are any of them left. I am not so sure that Lucan wasn't resurrected, either. We also don't know whether or not Darroc had any allies on the Queen's council who may be much more of a real threat than him. I guess these and other anwers will be answered at the end of the series (at least I hope so!!!)

Mercedes Veronica, I did enjoy your post. It is simply my opinion that Mac deserves better than Barrons based on what I know about him.

oxymoron
07-27-2009, 12:23 PM
If Darroc is not the big badass villain of the series... then who is?

IF Darroc is War (very big 'IF'), it would explain most, if not all, of his troublemaking. War is all about strife, conflict, might, domination, etc.

1. It would explain his being the traitor (cause conflict between UK/SQ).
2. It would explain his leadership position among US -- with UK absent and other US princes locked away, he's the only prince in a position to step into the top US spot on our world.
3. It would explain his bringing US through -- cause more war,fighting, etc.
4. It would explain his traitorous actions against QA -- cause insurrection.
5. It would explain his using Hunters -- war uses mercenaries.

If Darroc is War, he is not the biggest villain; he is only fulfilling his function. You can't blame War for causing others to fight/kill -- that's what War is -- any more than you can blame the sun for making you hot, or blame rain for making you wet. It's what they do, what they are.

Therefore, I don't think he's redeemable, if he is War, that is. (Sorry, Jill.) You can't expect to 'redeem' someone out of their most basic nature. All you can do is minimize their effect on their surroundings or remove them from those surroundings.

OTOH, if he is not War, then he's just a nasty piece of work. (Again, sorry, Jill, but hotness does not a hero make.) And he might be redeemable in death-by-sacrifice. In either case (War or not) I don't see his comeuppance being pretty.

angboys3
07-27-2009, 12:34 PM
If Darroc is not the big badass villain of the series... then who is?

I am beginning to think the book, though there might be someone directing it, but it seems to be doing it's own thing. Can you think of another being in this series, that is as scary or evil as the book? It's the one being that truly scares mac. She doesn't backtalk it like she does everyone else, Barrons, Darroc, V'lane.

oxymoron
07-27-2009, 01:27 PM
I am beginning to think the book, though there might be someone directing it, but it seems to be doing it's own thing. Can you think of another being in this series, that is as scary or evil as the book? It's the one being that truly scares mac. She doesn't backtalk it like she does everyone else, Barrons, Darroc, V'lane.

I agree, angboys, that the big bad is the Book -- or what the Book represents: lust for power (total domination); disregard for others (blood of billions); intelligence and creativity run amok. IMO the Book embodies all the qualities of the great Big Bads: ultimate despot.

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 02:40 PM
I am in no way on the Darroc band wagon, nor do I believe he is a fluffy bunny


*pictures darroc as fluffy energizer bunny and.... dies* :snick: :biglaugh:

Jill
07-27-2009, 02:48 PM
*pictures darroc as fluffy energizer bunny and.... dies* :snick: :biglaugh:

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!:cry:

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 02:55 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!:cry:

*lol* you have to see the positve aspect in the energizer bunny theory.... he would have great endurance :snick:

okay. time for me to lay off the wine. seriously.

V'lane_Obsession
07-27-2009, 02:56 PM
*pictures darroc as fluffy energizer bunny and.... dies* :snick: :biglaugh:

*Pictures Darroc in a chicken costume. He tries to cross the road and gets hit by a truck* :biglaugh:

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 02:58 PM
*Pictures Darroc in a chicken costume. He tries to cross the road and gets hit by a truck* :biglaugh:


now that would be an anticlimatic end for a villain. *scratches head* :wno: no, that won't do :smile:

Jill
07-27-2009, 03:15 PM
IF Darroc is War (very big 'IF'), it would explain most, if not all, of his troublemaking. War is all about strife, conflict, might, domination, etc.

1. It would explain his being the traitor (cause conflict between UK/SQ).
2. It would explain his leadership position among US -- with UK absent and other US princes locked away, he's the only prince in a position to step into the top US spot on our world.
3. It would explain his bringing US through -- cause more war,fighting, etc.
4. It would explain his traitorous actions against QA -- cause insurrection.
5. It would explain his using Hunters -- war uses mercenaries.

If Darroc is War, he is not the biggest villain; he is only fulfilling his function. You can't blame War for causing others to fight/kill -- that's what War is -- any more than you can blame the sun for making you hot, or blame rain for making you wet. It's what they do, what they are.

Therefore, I don't think he's redeemable, if he is War, that is. (Sorry, Jill.) You can't expect to 'redeem' someone out of their most basic nature. All you can do is minimize their effect on their surroundings or remove them from those surroundings.

OTOH, if he is not War, then he's just a nasty piece of work. (Again, sorry, Jill, but hotness does not a hero make.) And he might be redeemable in death-by-sacrifice. In either case (War or not) I don't see his comeuppance being pretty.

Well, of the four pale riders of the apocalypse, I'll take my chances with War, and here is why. Nothing good ever comes from Pestilence or Famine. Ever. Death is a wage mankind must pay for sin, and as humans, we are to value life over death. Death affects everyone. However with War, good can come from War. There is a winning side, hopefully the most just side wins. People have gained freedom and other rights as a result of War. Cultures have been preserved and freed. War has ended many atrocities and injustices. Death and destruction are a byproduct of war, but if you look at it strictly from a Utilitarian moral philosophy, the end result is most often times to the betterment of humanity with very few exceptions. War almost always has a "good" or "just" side in the fighting against the bad. Please remember that the Allies fighting Nazi Germany and the Axis powers.....the allies were a part of War, too!!!! So I am thinking that if Darroc is War, he has a good and just side. By definition, he must!!!! I do not care to hear from any of you commie-lovin', flag-burning pacifists out there. Y'all can just go suck an elf because I am right!

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Please remember that the Allies fighting Nazi Germany and the Axis powers.....the allies were a part of War, too!!!! So I am thinking that if Darroc is War, he has a good and just side. By definition, he must!!!! I do not care to hear from any of you commie-lovin', flag-burning pacifists out there. Y'all can just go suck an elf because I am right!

by your definition the nazis had a good side too. just pointing that out.

there is evil in this world. evil without any good in it. it exists. if darroc is that kind of evil or not, remains to be seen. I'm confident that Karen will give us full closure, one way or the other with her last book in this series and then we will know for sure.

I don't really care for the last two sentences in your post, I have to admit...
If it was just a joke, fine... but the 'commie-lovin' pacifists' might not get it.

Jill
07-27-2009, 03:36 PM
by your definition the nazis had a good side too. just pointing that out.

there is evil in this world. evil without any good in it. it exists. if darroc is that kind of evil or not, remains to be seen. I'm confident that Karen will give us full closure, one way or the other with her last book in this series and then we will know for sure.

I don't really care for the last two sentences in your post, I have to admit...
If it was just a joke, fine... but the 'commie-lovin' pacifists' might not get it.

No, by my definition War has a good side not the Nazis. I used the Allies and the Axis powers as an illustration of a winning/just losing/evil side to War. And I do not care what anyone thinks about the last two lines of my post. I do not cater to such groups. And of course, it was meant as a joke.

jeant
07-27-2009, 03:40 PM
by your definition the nazis had a good side too. just pointing that out.

there is evil in this world. evil without any good in it. it exists. if darroc is that kind of evil or not, remains to be seen. I'm confident that Karen will give us full closure, one way or the other with her last book in this series and then we will know for sure.

I don't really care for the last two sentences in your post, I have to admit...
If it was just a joke, fine... but the 'commie-lovin' pacifists' might not get it.

having met and talked with Jill many times I will say that I am sure it was meant as a joke. She is not the type of person who would have literally meant that. So just accept it as a joke, Jill is a really sweet person, not mean at all.

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 03:43 PM
No, by my definition War has a good side not the Nazis. I used the Allies and the Axis powers as an illustration of a winning/just losing/evil side to War. And I do not care what anyone thinks about the last two lines of my post. I do not cater to such groups. And of course, it was meant as a joke.


okay, I misunderstood that.

but please don't just damn me for misunderstanding you. the problem with written communciation over the internet is, that I don't see your face, don't hear your voice. I can't be sure if you're joking or not. that's why the smilies are so neat and helpful.

peace. (entirely without flag-burning :wwink: )

Jill
07-27-2009, 03:52 PM
Thanks, Jean! :notworthy: And CheeseBK, Darroc is holding my signed copy of Immortal Highlander hostage! He said he would burn it if I didn't defend his honor (his word not mine) concerning my friend Beth's (oxymornon) post!!! He MADE me do it!!!! He had better give it back right now, or else I will post all kinds of trash about him on the 101 Ways to Piss Off Darroc thread!!!!

CheeseBK
07-27-2009, 03:56 PM
Thanks, Jean! :notworthy: And CheeseBK, Darroc is holding my signed copy of Immortal Highlander hostage! He said he would burn it if I didn't defend his honor (his word not mine) concerning my friend Beth's (oxymornon) post!!! He MADE me do it!!!! He had better give it back right now, or else I will post all kinds of trash about him on the 101 Ways to Piss Off Darroc thread!!!!

*lol* got it. won't put myself between you and your copy of immortal highlander...and a signed one, too. :wwink:

oxymoron
07-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Well, of the four pale riders of the apocalypse, I'll take my chances with War, and here is why. Nothing good ever comes from Pestilence or Famine. Ever. Death is a wage mankind must pay for sin, and as humans, we are to value life over death. Death affects everyone. However with War, good can come from War. There is a winning side, hopefully the most just side wins. People have gained freedom and other rights as a result of War. Cultures have been preserved and freed. War has ended many atrocities and injustices. Death and destruction are a byproduct of war, but if you look at it strictly from a Utilitarian moral philosophy, the end result is most often times to the betterment of humanity with very few exceptions. War almost always has a "good" or "just" side in the fighting against the bad. Please remember that the Allies fighting Nazi Germany and the Axis powers.....the allies were a part of War, too!!!! So I am thinking that if Darroc is War, he has a good and just side. By definition, he must!!!! I do not care to hear from any of you commie-lovin', flag-burning pacifists out there. Y'all can just go suck an elf because I am right!

I agree with you, Jill, about Pestilence and Famine being all bad. But differ in my view on Death and War.

Death, IMO, is not necessarily a wage paid for sin. It can be simply a natural cessation of life. It can also be merciful. Yes, Death affects everyone, but it's the timing and manner of death that determine whether it is bad thing, a neutral thing, or even a beneficial thing.

War, again only IMO, can result in better or worse, depending on who wins. But the state of war is usually bad for both sides, causing combatants and noncombatants alike on both sides to suffer its effects -- during the war and after. I don't think War, itself, can have a good or bad side. War is the state of armed and vicious conflict. Death and destruction afflict both sides involved in war -- whether the good side or the bad side... the winning side or the losing side. Everybody pays.

The one being who benefits unconditionally from war is the one who orchestrates it, enjoys the strife caused, does not personally participate, but watches from the sidelines. And that is War, the US Prince.

Sorry to go all philosophical and thinky here. Now where's this elf you're offering? What's he look like? :wwink:

delmi
07-27-2009, 07:11 PM
:wwink:Yeah, Darroc didn't, PERSONALLY kill her and neither did he PLAN to get rid of her so, to me that kinda suggests there is the possibility that he orchestrated the situation in which she was killed. Honestly, I haven't a clue just throwin' it out there.

The Highlander series are self-contained books and had satisfying endings. This series has me going around in circles and I really, appreciate everybodies posts that shine a little light on each and every book in the fever series.

O.K. soon to have Dreamfever down but, lord almighty, how long do we have to wait for Shadowfever:cry:

Jill
07-27-2009, 07:25 PM
I agree with you, Jill, about Pestilence and Famine being all bad. But differ in my view on Death and War.

Death, IMO, is not necessarily a wage paid for sin. It can be simply a natural cessation of life. It can also be merciful. Yes, Death affects everyone, but it's the timing and manner of death that determine whether it is bad thing, a neutral thing, or even a beneficial thing.

War, again only IMO, can result in better or worse, depending on who wins. But the state of war is usually bad for both sides, causing combatants and noncombatants alike on both sides to suffer its effects -- during the war and after. I don't think War, itself, can have a good or bad side. War is the state of armed and vicious conflict. Death and destruction afflict both sides involved in war -- whether the good side or the bad side... the winning side or the losing side. Everybody pays.

The one being who benefits unconditionally from war is the one who orchestrates it, enjoys the strife caused, does not personally participate, but watches from the sidelines. And that is War, the US Prince.

Sorry to go all philosophical and thinky here. Now where's this elf you're offering? What's he look like? :wwink:

ROFL The elf quote is from The Tenth Kingdom. Apparently Karen and several Maniacs are HUGE fans :60: ...... I have no idea what he looks like.....maybe one of the dudes in Doberdawn's candy jar....who knows???? And BTW NEVER apologize for your philosophical posts!!!! OMG your posts are some of my faves on the forum. :notworthy: And I do agree to a certain extent about your comments on Death because I watched my father die a hideous death from a very rare form of cancer. But he fought death nobly to the very end!

I am also looking forward to a future thread started by you concerning one enigmatic *possible hero* ......Are you taking the hint, Beth?!?!?!?!

DoberDawn
07-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Now where's this elf you're offering? What's he look like? :wwink:


I have no idea what he looks like.....maybe one of the dudes in Doberdawn's candy jar....who knows????


Umm... did someone say if I stopped by here,
I might just get... :wbiggrin: :wwink:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39560371480371_2064_35816630

Jill
07-27-2009, 11:28 PM
Umm... did someone say if I stopped by here,
I might just get... :wbiggrin: :wwink:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39560371480371_2064_35816630

ROFLMAOOOOO!!!!!:rofl4:I should have KNOWN that Dawn had a hot elf stored away in her candy jar!!!! Now you've got your answer, Beth (aka oxymoron)....This elf has a verra big, er, um...*sock* :snick: His nickname is the *jawbreaker* :shocked: OMG!!!! I am laughing so hard I am CRYING!!!!!

snowstorm
07-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Umm... did someone say if I stopped by here,
I might just get... :wbiggrin: :wwink:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39560371480371_2064_35816630

:rofl4:

You'd think I'd know better than to be drinking anything while reading the posts in this forum.
Now I have to clean off my screen again.:biglaugh:

KJTVH
07-28-2009, 12:05 AM
:rofl4:

You'd think I'd know better than to be drinking anything while reading the posts in this forum.
Now I have to clean off my screen again.:biglaugh:

I did the same thing! Not to mention having to hide my screen quickly because DH and DD wanted to know what happened! And I AM supposed to be working over here...

lilahlove
07-28-2009, 12:26 AM
I'm not really in on the conversation, but of course this dude caught my attention real quick! And look...he's a total rightie!! :wlaugh: I'm sorry, did I just write that out loud? :shocked:

oxymoron
07-28-2009, 12:43 AM
ROFLMAOOOOO!!!!!:rofl4:I should have KNOWN that Dawn had a hot elf stored away in her candy jar!!!! Now you've got your answer, Beth (aka oxymoron)....This elf has a verra big, er, um...*sock* :snick: His nickname is the *jawbreaker* :shocked: OMG!!!! I am laughing so hard I am CRYING!!!!!

OMG!!!:shocked: *Sock*???

I looked.... looked harder.... and thought, "That's no banana, that's a grapefruit!":th_clapping_9553:

Ollie
07-28-2009, 12:45 AM
I agree with you, Jill, about Pestilence and Famine being all bad. But differ in my view on Death and War.

Death, IMO, is not necessarily a wage paid for sin. It can be simply a natural cessation of life. It can also be merciful. Yes, Death affects everyone, but it's the timing and manner of death that determine whether it is bad thing, a neutral thing, or even a beneficial thing.

War, again only IMO, can result in better or worse, depending on who wins. But the state of war is usually bad for both sides, causing combatants and noncombatants alike on both sides to suffer its effects -- during the war and after. I don't think War, itself, can have a good or bad side. War is the state of armed and vicious conflict. Death and destruction afflict both sides involved in war -- whether the good side or the bad side... the winning side or the losing side. Everybody pays.

The one being who benefits unconditionally from war is the one who orchestrates it, enjoys the strife caused, does not personally participate, but watches from the sidelines. And that is War, the US Prince.

Sorry to go all philosophical and thinky here. Now where's this elf you're offering? What's he look like? :wwink:

Or because the 4th prince went to the Queen and he lived up to his name and started a WAR???
I'm going to have to turn on pics (hiding from the kids) to see what you girls are having a hay day over.

Ollie
07-28-2009, 12:52 AM
:shocked:

Stapes
07-28-2009, 12:53 AM
Dawn always has the perfect picture for any occasion! (Oddly enough she seems to have a vast array of elf pictures:skeptical:) Nice sock:th_Clap5:

aurora0606
07-28-2009, 06:49 AM
ok so i want mind seeing Darroc redeemed but you can explain the reason why he kept the photos was not because of love but because he believed no one would ever see those pictures. he had them in his house deep within a dark zone and he probably thought nobody would ever come across those pictures so why bother getting rid of them. this was also another way to ensure that others never knew what he looked like. as for him murmuring that ok she will obey now he did not exactly have to speak loud or worry over much about Mac disobeying him because of what the princes had just done to her. however, i could just be cynical and realize that somebody has to be the bad guy

Jill
07-28-2009, 08:31 AM
ok so i want mind seeing Darroc redeemed but you can explain the reason why he kept the photos was not because of love but because he believed no one would ever see those pictures. he had them in his house deep within a dark zone and he probably thought nobody would ever come across those pictures so why bother getting rid of them. this was also another way to ensure that others never knew what he looked like. as for him murmuring that ok she will obey now he did not exactly have to speak loud or worry over much about Mac disobeying him because of what the princes had just done to her. however, i could just be cynical and realize that somebody has to be the bad guy

I have posted before that I think Adam is the former UK. If Darroc is War, and we know that they founded the Wild Hunt together, then perhaps Darroc has a slight chance at redemption. Remember in The Immortal Highlander, Dageus deep listened to Adam and was shocked at the darkness and loneliness inside of him. This is very telling because Dageus had been possessed by thirteen very dark, evil beings, but yet Adam is the darkest he's encountered? All I am trying to say is that if Adam chose Darroc to be his companion during the Wild Hunt, they must have some commonalities. I hope that Darroc, if he truly loved Alina, will want to be a better man because of his love for her. If he didn't love her, then I suspect he may be a lost cause. I do not know if there is another evil worse than Darroc out there, but I suspect that there is. Keep in mind QA's role in all the events so far. She seemed to want Darroc's punishment to be as Adam requested. Why???

Jill
07-28-2009, 08:32 AM
OMG!!!:shocked: *Sock*???

I looked.... looked harder.... and thought, "That's no banana, that's a grapefruit!":th_clapping_9553:

ROFLMAO!!!!!! :rofl4:Girl, quit looking so hard, you might go blind!!!!:biglaugh:

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 10:34 AM
LOL Mercedes Veronica, I have intentionally been calling Darroc "his hotness the Lord Master" strictly because all the Barrons fans talk about is his being hot and sexy. I would never condone rape, either, but I also do not condone murder. We do know that Barrons killed the woman he brought out of the mirror, but we do not know (yet) if it was murder. Again, Karen has not won me over to the Barrons bandwagon yet because she has not given me enough information....YET. And I have quantified most of my posts with the word "yet" *I think*:skeptical: Anyway, I do believe that Darroc loved Alina. I also agree that he might be sacrificed in order to gain his redemption. And Nurslings, I do believe that there is a much worse threat out there to Mac than even Darroc. I am probably wrong, but that's what I think. I believe the Draghar are dangerous, if there are any of them left. I am not so sure that Lucan wasn't resurrected, either. We also don't know whether or not Darroc had any allies on the Queen's council who may be much more of a real threat than him. I guess these and other anwers will be answered at the end of the series (at least I hope so!!!)

Mercedes Veronica, I did enjoy your post. It is simply my opinion that Mac deserves better than Barrons based on what I know about him.


I've enjoyed your post as well, Jill! And I totally respect your opinion, matter of fact I acknowledge the soundness in the logic of it :smile:
For the most part I agree with you about Darroc, though I'm not on his band wagon (but hey, that cld change!). I do believe he loved Alina and did not kill her. As well as redeemable in a self-sacrificing kind of way, nor do I think he's all bad.
I just felt as though I had to defend my love for Barrons! That's all. I can't speak for everyone else in the bandwagon, but I know why I love him! :smile:

I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out! ...and the waiting will be the toughest part! :arghhh: but we all don't really have a choice in the matter :sad1: lol.

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 10:47 AM
I am in no way on the Darroc band wagon, nor do I believe he is a fluffy bunny, but that being said...

The way I read FF, Mac is aware of others entering the anteroom. Who's to say that Darroc wasn't one of those? I don't think he watched, or directly orchestrated the rape. Indirectly, heck ya. Do I think he had feelings for Alina? Yeah, I do. He didn't kill her and while we can argue that was just because he needed her to find the book, we can all agree Karen doesn't share all her characters' motivations with us.

Very sneaky in that way. :notworthy:

There are no black and white hats for our men in this series. All of them have varying shades of gray. Barrons is by no means a boy scout. (But I still love him anyway) V'Lane, something hinky with him as well. All very self serving.

I remember a long time ago, before this series started, and Karen was writing the Highlander series, I was looking around her website,...boy has it changed...that she was joking because Darroc was whining at her. Every time I think of him being evil I remember that. Don't know why.

I can in no way read what Karen's going to do, but knowing how much she loves to tease and bait and switch with us, is it too hard to imagine there isn't a redemption in store for him?

If I am wrong and he's the BIG BADDIE, I'll shrug and admit I was wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But I like the idea of him having a grain of decency in him. Keeps me from fearing the dark so much. LOL

I personally would like to see him redeemed. But then again, when I write I can't keep my baddies in their evil boxes either.

Kris

I second that! :th_Clap5:

V'lane_Obsession
07-28-2009, 11:00 AM
ROFLMAO!!!!!! :rofl4:Girl, quit looking so hard, you might go blind!!!!:biglaugh:

roflmao Boink

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 11:18 AM
I agree with you, Jill, about Pestilence and Famine being all bad. But differ in my view on Death and War.

Death, IMO, is not necessarily a wage paid for sin. It can be simply a natural cessation of life. It can also be merciful. Yes, Death affects everyone, but it's the timing and manner of death that determine whether it is bad thing, a neutral thing, or even a beneficial thing.

War, again only IMO, can result in better or worse, depending on who wins. But the state of war is usually bad for both sides, causing combatants and noncombatants alike on both sides to suffer its effects -- during the war and after. I don't think War, itself, can have a good or bad side. War is the state of armed and vicious conflict. Death and destruction afflict both sides involved in war -- whether the good side or the bad side... the winning side or the losing side. Everybody pays.

The one being who benefits unconditionally from war is the one who orchestrates it, enjoys the strife caused, does not personally participate, but watches from the sidelines. And that is War, the US Prince.

Sorry to go all philosophical and thinky here. Now where's this elf you're offering? What's he look like? :wwink:


I LOVE your take on this. Nice

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 11:49 AM
Jill--
I can see why you wld say that about Barrons. B/c on the surface, it definately appears to be that way. So I do give you that. Matter of fact, I agree with that.

But the key word was surface.
There's a lot more to Barrons that meets the eye. A lot that is unexplained, first off. But some explained as well. After rereading KMM's fever series a few days ago, she does more or less explain some of his actions. Well, obviously not some of the more, i don't what to call it, but some things need a little more explaining b/c, granted, he does cross the line a few times.
However, one would truly have to understand tough LOVE to get some of what Barrons does.
Also, I do believe KMM hints that Mac means more to Barrons than what meets the eyes. I wld love to give you the exact sentences, but I don't really have the time to go back and search for it all. But here's what I could come up with from the top of my head:
He actually cried when Malluce pretty much beat her to death and he said that he wld have never wished this for her. He also told her that he didn't NEED an OOP decter, that though it's helpful, he was doing fine on his own and wld continue to do so. Read?? There was more to the reason why he keeps saving her life (and actually getting emotional when something happens to her). He's also let it be known that he was broken once, and that he has loved lost many things! This tells me that due to so much pain in his past, he has shut down emotionally in order to protect himself, and that somehow, Mac keeps getting through the Fort Knox around his heart. I understand all this about him, b/c I too have done the same. I had to learn the hard lessons that he had too learn and that Mac is beginning to learn now. After going through sooo much, most would be hardened like he is as well. And tough love wld become your style.

Being a victim of both verbal and physical abuse at one point, it's easy to see only those things in Barrons and nothing else. But if one opened their eyes a little wider, took a deeper look, and was open to see things they didn't want to see....One would see that that there's a lot more to what's behind Barrons' actions then what Jill mentioned.
Also, not to be mean or anything, but we truly don't know enough about Darroc to think he really is redeemable. Unless it's b/c he's so handsome. If that's the case, then the same Jill said about Barrons can be said about Darroc. I mean, not even mentioning the other stuff he did, look at how he treated Alina and allowed for Mac's rape. Seriously??? At least Barrons (as of yet) doesn't condone rape. It's like calling the pot black.

I wld get deeper into it all, but it wld be one LONG post. Lol. My point is that I don't want Mac to end up with Barrons b/c he's hot and dangerous. That's wayyy too superficial, and not enough to be w/ someone, imho anyways. That's also purely emotional and not very, iono, sound logic to be with someone.

Frankly, I think it wld be nice if Darroc was redeemed. I really wish he really had fallen in love with Alina. But emotions aside, I think (but could be very wrong) that the only way he cld be redeemable is if he sacrificed his life :sad1:
It'd also be nice if he was redeemed simply b/c I wldn't want Jill or any of Darroc's fans to end up instituntionalized or whatever! I want them to have their HEA too!
Same w/ those who are all for V'lane. :) I wld genuinely love it if all of KMM's fans cld have the ending they want. (obviously they all can't be with Mac, but hopefully V'lane get's his own story, and Darroc is somehow redeemed, and Barron's get his HEA and christian gets his story too!---or some other kind of compromise). The same way other's feel about Darroc and V'lane, I feel for Barrons, so I understand.

I hope I did not offend in my post, and if I did, I apologize! I'm very sorry!!!
I really agree with a lot of what you're saying, MV, but I for one would love to see Barrons and Mac together. Most of 'us' are rooting for this, wondering about this and if this weren't to happen, it would be very disappointing after reading 5 books and it didn't happen. Kind of anti-climactic and I, for one would be left with a feeling of, this is it??!!! All this for that??!!

As far as Darroc goes, if he's not the BIG BAD, he is certainly a minion. I hope I won't offend any of the Darroc fans, but, he spent many thousands of years 'playing' with humans for amusement and not in a good way. He was in the process of challenging QA in Immortal Highlander for power and even up until then, he thought nothing of humans, or thought very little of humans, wanting to make Adam suffer by wanting to make Adam watch as he, Darroc, raped and murdered Gabby. Remember, Adam spent a couple of thousand years coming around to his point of view, defending humans and beginning to admire them. Which is why he was made human, he wanted to stay that way, so he could love properly. I find it hard to believe that Darroc, after being made human, hating humans, would suddenly find an affinity for humans and suddenly finding love, having been made human against his will, hating QA and wanting supreme power. A far cry from his true nature to suddenly become 'human', when all we have seen from him, in IH, is pure evil. I don't think he could pull a Ebonezer Scrooge when he wants power, has hatred and wants revenge. That would be too convenient.

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I really agree with a lot of what you're saying, MV, but I for one would love to see Barrons and Mac together. Most of 'us' are rooting for this, wondering about this and if this weren't to happen, it would be very disappointing after reading 5 books and it didn't happen. Kind of anti-climactic and I, for one would be left with a feeling of, this is it??!!! All this for that??!!

Thank you! I want Barrons and Mac together badly too!!! And honestly, I do believe that she will be with him. It wld be very anti-climatic and the only way I cld continue to love the series is if there was a very good reason why they weren't together and a very good reason she's with someone else. ...But I can't think of that good reason.

And you bring up some good points about Darroc. Which is why I said he could only be redeemable if he sacrifices his life in order to save the world and what not. Adam did wrong too, but he didn't go as far as Darroc. Darroc betrayed his friend (Adam) in what is probably the worst way, "played" w/ humans, and now brought down the walls. IF he is redeemed, I believe that's how it wld play out.

I'd be happy if everyone got what they wanted. But I'm really rooting for Barrons more than anything else and I wld be just fine if Darroc was not redeemed.
But who knows how it'll all play out (besides Karen of course)???

As for stories I wld love to read?? Christian's, Ryodan's, and Dani's. Especially Ryodan! He is sooo my kinda man next to Barrons. And I wanna know all about Christian's power (and I also LOVE the MacKelters, so I wld love anything that had to do with them). We wld have to wait for Dani to grow up first to get her story (i hope she lives through this!! she's a powerful sidhe-seer with that speed of hers!)

Jill
07-28-2009, 12:36 PM
I hear what all of you are saying, but please keep in mind that Gabby's family library had an entire volume dedicated to the Sin Siriche Du, or the book of the darkest/blackest fairy (Adam Black's book). According to Gabby, he was the worst one she could have possibly run into!!!!! Darroc doesn't have his own book. And what about the queen's consort Mael in the Immortal Highlander? Where are his loyalties? I tell ya I don't trust that guy AT ALL!!!!:wno:

jeant
07-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Umm... did someone say if I stopped by here,
I might just get... :wbiggrin: :wwink:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39560371480371_2064_35816630


ROTFLMAOO!!! you girl, are absolutely priceless!!! what an extensive closet you have!!! wonder if Santa could deliver him to good girls at Christmas??:wbiggrin: I could start being a real good girl!:wwink:

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 01:13 PM
I hear what all of you are saying, but please keep in mind that Gabby's family library had an entire volume dedicated to the Sin Siriche Du, or the book of the darkest/blackest fairy (Adam Black's book). According to Gabby, he was the worst one she could have possibly run into!!!!! Darroc doesn't have his own book. And what about the queen's consort Mael in the Immortal Highlander? Where are his loyalties? I tell ya I don't trust that guy AT ALL!!!!:wno:
Unfortunately, Jill, we found out in IH that a lot what was in that book about Adam was false, and could indeed have been about Darroc, as they 'hung out' back in those days. Also, over the thousands of years since that had been written, Adam has changed, it took thousands of years for Adam to come to his new found conclusions, and when he became human, things fell into place for him. Darroc on the other hand, went the other way, wanting to depose QA, bringing down the walls, and killing gobs of modern day humans in the process. All that AFTER QA made him human. I don't think that he 'suddenly' saw the light.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 01:18 PM
Thank you! I want Barrons and Mac together badly too!!! And honestly, I do believe that she will be with him. It wld be very anti-climatic and the only way I cld continue to love the series is if there was a very good reason why they weren't together and a very good reason she's with someone else. ...But I can't think of that good reason.

And you bring up some good points about Darroc. Which is why I said he could only be redeemable if he sacrifices his life in order to save the world and what not. Adam did wrong too, but he didn't go as far as Darroc. Darroc betrayed his friend (Adam) in what is probably the worst way, "played" w/ humans, and now brought down the walls. IF he is redeemed, I believe that's how it wld play out.

I'd be happy if everyone got what they wanted. But I'm really rooting for Barrons more than anything else and I wld be just fine if Darroc was not redeemed.
But who knows how it'll all play out (besides Karen of course)???

As for stories I wld love to read?? Christian's, Ryodan's, and Dani's. Especially Ryodan! He is sooo my kinda man next to Barrons. And I wanna know all about Christian's power (and I also LOVE the MacKelters, so I wld love anything that had to do with them). We wld have to wait for Dani to grow up first to get her story (i hope she lives through this!! she's a powerful sidhe-seer with that speed of hers!)
Yep, you're right, MV! I'm on your wavelength!

Breelia
07-28-2009, 01:25 PM
I hear what all of you are saying, but please keep in mind that Gabby's family library had an entire volume dedicated to the Sin Siriche Du, or the book of the darkest/blackest fairy (Adam Black's book). According to Gabby, he was the worst one she could have possibly run into!!!!! Darroc doesn't have his own book. And what about the queen's consort Mael in the Immortal Highlander? Where are his loyalties? I tell ya I don't trust that guy AT ALL!!!!:wno:

I can't tell what this is referring to. Are you saying Darroc ISN'T a good guy now?

As for not killing Alina, I'm on the fence about that. He might not have killed her, but he DID kill some sidhe-seer. P. 241 of hardcover DarkFever:


Though its wrath was for Barrons, it swung its head around and the last words it uttered were for me. ďThe Lord Master is back, you stupid bitch, and heís going to do the same thing to you he did to the last pretty little sidhe-seer. Youíll wish youíd died at my hands. Youíll beg for death the same way she did.Ē

And he is demonstrating very clearly that he has no respect or love for human life. I think he was using Alina and the fact that he had no plans to kill her when he was done doesn't say much. Maybe he'd just let her go out among all the Unseelie he let through and fend for herself. :skeptical:

Breelia
07-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Unfortunately, Jill, we found out in IH that a lot what was in that book about Adam was false, and could indeed have been about Darroc, as they 'hung out' back in those days. Also, over the thousands of years since that had been written, Adam has changed, it took thousands of years for Adam to come to his new found conclusions, and when he became human, things fell into place for him. Darroc on the other hand, went the other way, wanting to depose QA, bringing down the walls, and killing gobs of modern day humans in the process. All that AFTER QA made him human. I don't think that he 'suddenly' saw the light.

Not sure if it's fair to compare Darroc and Adam. I don't know which book it was in, maybe as far back as BtHM, definitely in DH, it says that Adam is not like the other Fae. He was fascinated with humans from the beginning, and kept watching them even after the Compact, and he even had a son with a human. Darroc is nothing like that. He believed that the only way to savor beauty was to destroy it. That was why Adam went to such lengths to hide Morgana from him.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 01:33 PM
Not sure if it's fair to compare Darroc and Adam. I don't know which book it was in, maybe as far back as BtHM, definitely in DH, it says that Adam is not like the other Fae. He was fascinated with humans from the beginning, and kept watching them even after the Compact, and he even had a son with a human. Darroc is nothing like that. He believed that the only way to savor beauty was to destroy it. That was why Adam went to such lengths to hide Morgana from him.
Yes, I agree.........I was referring to Jill's post that you were confused about. Adam has always shown he was a different sort of Fae. Darroc, to me, has always acted Unseelie, compared to Adam, if we're GOING to comare.

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 02:19 PM
hmmm, breelia and keaseemcdoogle, ya'll bring up some good pts that i didn't think of, let alone take into consideration.
i agree 100%

Jill
07-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Unfortunately, Jill, we found out in IH that a lot what was in that book about Adam was false, and could indeed have been about Darroc, as they 'hung out' back in those days. Also, over the thousands of years since that had been written, Adam has changed, it took thousands of years for Adam to come to his new found conclusions, and when he became human, things fell into place for him. Darroc on the other hand, went the other way, wanting to depose QA, bringing down the walls, and killing gobs of modern day humans in the process. All that AFTER QA made him human. I don't think that he 'suddenly' saw the light.

Please don't mistake me. Adam Black is my very favorite of all of Karen's heroes. He is on my top three list of all time, as a matter of fact! I hated what Darroc attempted to do to Gabby and Adam in The Immortal Highlander. I understand that Adam had the benefit of drinking from the cauldron and a few thousand years (a short amount of time for the fae, remember) to change his view of humans. Darroc does say that Adam participated in some of the heinous stuff they did during the Wild Hunt at first. I do agree that Darroc is Unseelie. And we can't forget that others even closer to the Queen, like her own consort, Mael, does not appear to be on her side. However, QA is amazed by the power of human love and its magical principles. If Darroc truly loved Alina, and I agree that it is a mighty big if, then I think his love could have the power to redeem him. I guess it's just the romantic in me... I don't want Alina's obvious love for him to be a waste. The power of human love seems to be a recurrent theme in Karen's books. We'll see how it ends next year!

V'lane_Obsession
07-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Please don't mistake me. Adam Black is my very favorite of all of Karen's heroes. He is on my top three list of all time, as a matter of fact! I hated what Darroc attempted to do to Gabby and Adam in The Immortal Highlander. I understand that Adam had the benefit of drinking from the cauldron and a few thousand years (a short amount of time for the fae, remember) to change his view of humans. Darroc does say that Adam participated in some of the heinous stuff they did during the Wild Hunt at first. I do agree that Darroc is Unseelie. And we can't forget that others even closer to the Queen, like her own consort, Mael, does not appear to be on her side. However, QA is amazed by the power of human love and its magical principles. If Darroc truly loved Alina, and I agree that it is a mighty big if, then I think his love could have the power to redeem him. I guess it's just the romantic in me... I don't want Alina's obvious love for him to be a waste. The power of human love seems to be a recurrent theme in Karen's books. We'll see how it ends next year!

I agree, I think we have the wrong impression of Darroc. When he was a Fae with no compassion for life he was of course the villain then. I don't think he meant for Mac to be raped. He came in after it was already in process, he got the Unseelie Princes off of her and he did not sound enthusiastic at all about the fact that this would be the way he would have to control her.
When Mac came across the pictures of Alina and Darroc, she noted that they did look happy together. We know Darroc wants the book for power, so maybe he lied to Alina about his true intentions, thats why Alina probably called Mac and said the things she said. He lied to Alina because he cared about what she thought of him, otherwise he could of voiced her the entire time. Maybe he felt the same way that Adam felt towards Gabby when he was human. Maybe Darroc thought the only way to protect Alina and not be defenseless against other Fae, was for him to get his powers back and thats when the book comes into play. Now that Alina is dead, maybe he wants the UK's version of The Song of Making to bring Alina back to life, and thats why he promised Mac Alina is she would help her.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 05:32 PM
I agree, I think we have the wrong impression of Darroc. When he was a Fae with no compassion for life he was of course the villain then. I don't think he meant for Mac to be raped. He came in after it was already in process, he got the Unseelie Princes off of her and he did not sound enthusiastic at all about the fact that this would be the way he would have to control her.
When Mac came across the pictures of Alina and Darroc, she noted that they did look happy together. We know Darroc wants the book for power, so maybe he lied to Alina about his true intentions, thats why Alina probably called Mac and said the things she said. He lied to Alina because he cared about what she thought of him, otherwise he could of voiced her the entire time. Maybe he felt the same way that Adam felt towards Gabby when he was human. Maybe Darroc thought the only way to protect Alina and not be defenseless against other Fae, was for him to get his powers back and thats when the book comes into play. Now that Alina is dead, maybe he wants the UK's version of The Song of Making to bring Alina back to life, and thats why he promised Mac Alina is she would help her.
I just can't even begin to see where you girls are coming from. The only insight I have on Darroc is pure evil. I'm currently listening to the IH again, audio version, and he is beyond redemption in MHO. After all, he is the one who broke out the Hunters again.................no one else.

Breelia
07-28-2009, 05:45 PM
I just can't even begin to see where you girls are coming from. The only insight I have on Darroc is pure evil. I'm currently listening to the IH again, audio version, and he is beyond redemption in MHO. After all, he is the one who broke out the Hunters again.................no one else.

What he said to Mac when he called on the phone and the way he said it, I think might be a hint that his human emotions are starting to get a toe hold. He may have been totally honest about not wanting to kill Alina, and he may not be happy about the fact that he might care that she's dead.

That said, he still brought the walls down, he's still hunting for the book - for whatever reason - and when he comes in at the end of FF, it seemed to me like he planned for Mac to go through that. I think he's too evil and has too little regard for humanity for his human emotions to change him, though. He might notice them, like a person would notice a buzzing fly, but they won't bother him enough to sway him from his purpose. He wanted the world to be the way it used to be before the Compact. Now it is all that and worse. Darroc did that.

I wouldn't want Alina's love to be wasted either, but don't forget that Darroc used to be Fae. And he still has that magneticism. I think he was manipulating Alina - not with Voice but with charm - to get her to do what he wanted from her. In the end, by the time Alina made that call to Mac, I don't think she loved him anymore. I think she was scared of him.

airbear82
07-28-2009, 05:56 PM
I just can't even begin to see where you girls are coming from. The only insight I have on Darroc is pure evil. I'm currently listening to the IH again, audio version, and he is beyond redemption in MHO. After all, he is the one who broke out the Hunters again.................no one else.

:th_nod: I agree. The thing is how can they say that they think Darroc is redeemable but the UK is not? IMHO at least the UK tried to make up for the wrongs he had committed. Darroc has yet to even show that he is even close to wanting to right the wrongs that he has committed.

Wildernessgirl
07-28-2009, 06:02 PM
I agree, I think we have the wrong impression of Darroc. When he was a Fae with no compassion for life he was of course the villain then. I don't think he meant for Mac to be raped. He came in after it was already in process, he got the Unseelie Princes off of her and he did not sound enthusiastic at all about the fact that this would be the way he would have to control her.
When Mac came across the pictures of Alina and Darroc, she noted that they did look happy together. We know Darroc wants the book for power, so maybe he lied to Alina about his true intentions, thats why Alina probably called Mac and said the things she said. He lied to Alina because he cared about what she thought of him, otherwise he could of voiced her the entire time. Maybe he felt the same way that Adam felt towards Gabby when he was human. Maybe Darroc thought the only way to protect Alina and not be defenseless against other Fae, was for him to get his powers back and thats when the book comes into play. Now that Alina is dead, maybe he wants the UK's version of The Song of Making to bring Alina back to life, and thats why he promised Mac Alina is she would help her.

I don't know if we are reading the same book but Derek O'Bannion evens tells Mac that Darroc has something in store for her on Halloween. Darroc tells her when he sends flowers that she needs to help him find Book or he will take away her free will. There's no doubt in my mind that he had every intention of her being raped and made pri-ya and the princes were following his orders. They even stopped when he told them to because if they went any further she would be killed and then be useless to him. He doesn't seem bothered by her rape and even say's quite cold heartedly that he thinks she will follow him now.

If Darroc is redeemed the only way I can see it happening is if he were to make a sacrifice in the end and be killed doing so and I don't think many will mourn him afterwards. The only reason I think there is slight chance of him being redeemed is that he seemed to care for Alina which seems strange considering his view towards humans and how much he despised Adam for liking humans. I don't think he killed Alina or had any intention of kiling her.

However, he's very very different in the way he's written in books than Adam, Jericho or any other character. The others have doen some unethical things but nowhere near anything Darroc has done or as often. It's like saying Malluce, Derek O Bannion, etc. will all be redeemed by end of book. Not going to happen.

Wildernessgirl
07-28-2009, 06:07 PM
:th_nod: I agree. The thing is how can they say that they think Darroc is redeemable but the UK is not? IMHO at least the UK tried to make up for the wrongs he had committed. Darroc has yet to even show that he is even close to wanting to right the wrongs that he has committed.

I agree! What is even more ironic is when they try to compare Darroc to Adam and Jericho and say they are worse than Darroc. I'm sorry but the gang rape of the sister of someone you were suppose to love makes no sense whatsoever. There is no way Dageus, Drustan or even Cian would ever do something like that. Darroc is without a doubt one of the villians in the book. I need more proof before stating otherwise.

V'lane_Obsession
07-28-2009, 06:20 PM
I just can't even begin to see where you girls are coming from. The only insight I have on Darroc is pure evil. I'm currently listening to the IH again, audio version, and he is beyond redemption in MHO. After all, he is the one who broke out the Hunters again.................no one else.
Adam and Darroc use to be buddies. They did all the same despicable things until Adam drank from the cauldron. If Darroc had a chance to drink from the cauldron, would he not gain compassion for human as Adam has? If he found his Gabby err... his Jill... don't you think he would end up as Adam? I just think he deserves a chance, this time around we don't know the complete story. Plus wasn't Adam known as the blackest elf?

Breelia
07-28-2009, 06:25 PM
Adam and Darroc use to be buddies. They did all the same despicable things until Adam drank from the cauldron. If Darroc had a chance to drink from the cauldron, would he not gain compassion for human as Adam has? If he found his Gabby err... his Jill... don't you think he would end up as Adam? I just think he deserves a chance, this time around we don't know the complete story. Plus wasn't Adam known as the blackest elf?

This has been mentioned before a couple of times. Do you have a reference for it? In IH (p.142, paperback) it says they fought over a human woman. Adam had see her first, but Darroc had taken her anyway and killed her. It says:


Her death hadn't come easy. And for no no bloody frigging good reason. Her murder had been an act of bitter, senseless violence. Adam had done his fair share of killing in that lawless time, but for reasons. Always for reasons. Never just for the pleasure of it.

Also, I think the worst of what Adam has done was after Morgana died, and that was because he grieved for her. At least that's how I explain it.

And the cauldron doesn't magically instill compassion. It erases the memory, it doesn't change a Fae's personality.

V'lane_Obsession
07-28-2009, 07:22 PM
This has been mentioned before a couple of times. Do you have a reference for it? In IH (p.142, paperback) it says they fought over a human woman. Adam had see her first, but Darroc had taken her anyway and killed her. It says:



Also, I think the worst of what Adam has done was after Morgana died, and that was because he grieved for her. At least that's how I explain it.

And the cauldron doesn't magically instill compassion. It erases the memory, it doesn't change a Fae's personality.

We don't know the worst that Adam has done.

I never thought that the cauldron would instill compassion, I only thought that if Darroc drank the cauldron, there might of been a chance that he, just like Adam, would see things differently with the memory gone of all the bad things he did.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Adam and Darroc use to be buddies. They did all the same despicable things until Adam drank from the cauldron. If Darroc had a chance to drink from the cauldron, would he not gain compassion for human as Adam has? If he found his Gabby err... his Jill... don't you think he would end up as Adam? I just think he deserves a chance, this time around we don't know the complete story. Plus wasn't Adam known as the blackest elf?
Wait a minute? My head is whirling! Where, in which book does it say that Adam drank from the cauldron??!!!! I've read these books and listened to the audiobooks and I've never come accross this!! Adam is only 5 or 6 thousand years old..............

Breelia
07-28-2009, 07:30 PM
Wait a minute? My head is whirling! Where, in which book does it say that Adam drank from the cauldron??!!!! I've read these books and listened to the audiobooks and I've never come accross this!! Adam is only 5 or 6 thousand years old..............

I couldn't find it either.

KJTVH
07-28-2009, 07:38 PM
Wait a minute? My head is whirling! Where, in which book does it say that Adam drank from the cauldron??!!!! I've read these books and listened to the audiobooks and I've never come accross this!! Adam is only 5 or 6 thousand years old..............

I can't find it right now, but I was thinking that in one of the chats, someone said something about Adam being only 5 or 6 thousand years old and KMM responsed with a "at least that is all he remembers" sort of comment...

V'lane_Obsession
07-28-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't know if we are reading the same book but Derek O'Bannion evens tells Mac that Darroc has something in store for her on Halloween. Darroc tells her when he sends flowers that she needs to help him find Book or he will take away her free will. There's no doubt in my mind that he had every intention of her being raped and made pri-ya and the princes were following his orders. They even stopped when he told them to because if they went any further she would be killed and then be useless to him. He doesn't seem bothered by her rape and even say's quite cold heartedly that he thinks she will follow him now.

If Darroc is redeemed the only way I can see it happening is if he were to make a sacrifice in the end and be killed doing so and I don't think many will mourn him afterwards. The only reason I think there is slight chance of him being redeemed is that he seemed to care for Alina which seems strange considering his view towards humans and how much he despised Adam for liking humans. I don't think he killed Alina or had any intention of kiling her.

However, he's very very different in the way he's written in books than Adam, Jericho or any other character. The others have doen some unethical things but nowhere near anything Darroc has done or as often. It's like saying Malluce, Derek O Bannion, etc. will all be redeemed by end of book. Not going to happen.

Yes we are reading the same book, we just see things differently. The surprise could of been the Shades taking over Dublin and all the Unseelie being freed. Her free will can be taken by using the Voice.
The princes found her and were using her as they would any woman that came across their path, Darroc found her just in time to save her from being killed. He was not enthusiastic about it but we will find out the truth hopefully in a couple of weeks.
Just because Karen has not written Darroc as all the rest of her hero's does not mean he won't be redeemed. The events are told in Mac's point of view and Mac sees Darroc as the villain. I am a big believer in that anything is possible. I have faith that Darroc will be saved. Everyone is entitled to their opinion right?

oxymoron
07-28-2009, 08:10 PM
I have posted before that I think Adam is the former UK. If Darroc is War, and we know that they founded the Wild Hunt together, then perhaps Darroc has a slight chance at redemption. Remember in The Immortal Highlander, Dageus deep listened to Adam and was shocked at the darkness and loneliness inside of him. This is very telling because Dageus had been possessed by thirteen very dark, evil beings, but yet Adam is the darkest he's encountered? All I am trying to say is that if Adam chose Darroc to be his companion during the Wild Hunt, they must have some commonalities. I hope that Darroc, if he truly loved Alina, will want to be a better man because of his love for her. If he didn't love her, then I suspect he may be a lost cause. I do not know if there is another evil worse than Darroc out there, but I suspect that there is. Keep in mind QA's role in all the events so far. She seemed to want Darroc's punishment to be as Adam requested. Why???

I think you may have answered your own questions here, Jill.

IF Adam was the UK, and
IF Darroc was US Prince (and War?):

1. The US were referred to as the UK's *children*. That means an US Prince is UK's *son*, i.e., Adam is Darroc's *father*. There's your probable commonality/connection.

2. If Adam has forgotten most of being the UK, and Darroc clearly remembers, that would explain much of Darroc's hostility. Having your *dad* toss your worth aside in favor of puny humans has gotta sting big time.

3. If Adam has any inkling of memory re Darroc's being his *son*, it would explain Adam's reluctance to have Darroc killed as punishment; QA would know this, too. Maybe they hoped Darroc could also evolve, be redeemed as he (Adam) was from interaction with humans.

4. If Darroc's hostility, animosity, disdain, and grievance against Adam and humans is rooted in Adam's (UK's) *betrayal* of his own kind/his own son, I think redemption just might be possible. (Never thought I'd see it this way!) If Darroc's attitude stems from resentment, feeling of loss, feeling unworthy, he might indeed be redeemed by being loved, valued again.

5. If the UK no longer exists (for all practical purposes), Darroc is a logical new leader of US: he's the UK's son and is more experienced in dealing with other races, worlds, etc. than other US.

6. If Darroc is/was War, how do we deal with that? An US Prince can change (statis/change), but can the embodiment of War change enough to become a good guy?

I hope I haven't walked all over your theory, Jill. These thoughts came in response to your post; I'm not trying to poach, only respond.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 08:31 PM
I can't find it right now, but I was thinking that in one of the chats, someone said something about Adam being only 5 or 6 thousand years old and KMM responsed with a "at least that is all he remembers" sort of comment...
Yeah, but, it wasn't in any of the books that he drank from the cauldron, and that he remembers just the 5 or 6 thousand years. What happened before that, has no bearing on what we know of him now, or what he's done to lead up to now. Any more speculation is moot, unless it's actually in print in one of the upcoming books. And, then, that would change everything.

KJTVH
07-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Yeah, but, it wasn't in any of the books that he drank from the cauldron, and that he remembers just the 5 or 6 thousand years. What happened before that, has no bearing on what we know of him now, or what he's done to lead up to now. Any more speculation is moot, unless it's actually in print in one of the upcoming books. And, then, that would change everything.

I agree. I do not think Adam is the UK, Cruce, War, or any of the others that have been speculated. He may be a 'different kind of Fae' and that may be a connection to the Fever series somehow, but I don't see Adam himself being that critical -- maybe because he's already had his story and has his HEA -- and considering the timeline, he is busy raising his kids and exchanging the vows with Gabby while the events of the Fever books are going on.

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 09:16 PM
you're very right kaeseemcdoogle. The library that Gabby's family had only dated back those many years (actually, I believe even less). Whatever happened before then has no bearing.

Also, to whoever mention Darroc drinking from the cauldron and being able to be compassionate...I don't believe one forgets who they are. They don't totally change altogether if one forgets memories. Only the things shaped by the enviroment they grew up in change. But the core of us, is still the same. But that's getting into the whole nature vs. nurture thing. I'm mainly talking from knowing someone who had permanent memory loss after an accident. She was still who was to the core, only a few things changed and that was what her environment shaped her to be.

Jill, you have some valid points about Adam being the UK and Darroc being War, but there are a few holes and the theory just doesn't all add up evenly.

First off, the UK was never allowed to drink from the cauldron. And we know (from Moning implying so) that Adam had taken a drank from the cauldron at least once. We also know from KMM's Highlander series that he's similar to QA with the synchronacity (sp??) thing and orchestrating things from a distance and in a complex way. He normally works things behind the scenes. This all just isn't his style

I don't believe Darroc is War, b/c he entered before darroc and, well, had sex with her, before Darroc entered. If I have to, I'll get the exact passage.
Also, In either BF or FF we were told from V'lane's own lips that Darroc was a trusted member of the queens court (i put the exact passage in another post, i believe, that might be earlier in this thread, but cld b a different one) The exact passage left no room for him to be Unseelie, and being War wld make him Unseelie.

There was a few other holes I found when I first came across your theory, but that's just from the top of my head.

However, I don't want you to feel attacked or anything. You did a very a good job coming up with all of your thoughts/theorys and giving it good support and making logical sense :th_Clap5:

I'm just boucing of thoughts and ideas to see if we can come up with something that can account for all of the hangups.

Mercedes Veronica
07-28-2009, 09:17 PM
good pt KJTVH

Jill
07-28-2009, 09:58 PM
I think you may have answered your own questions here, Jill.

IF Adam was the UK, and
IF Darroc was US Prince (and War?):

1. The US were referred to as the UK's *children*. That means an US Prince is UK's *son*, i.e., Adam is Darroc's *father*. There's your probable commonality/connection.

2. If Adam has forgotten most of being the UK, and Darroc clearly remembers, that would explain much of Darroc's hostility. Having your *dad* toss your worth aside in favor of puny humans has gotta sting big time.

3. If Adam has any inkling of memory re Darroc's being his *son*, it would explain Adam's reluctance to have Darroc killed as punishment; QA would know this, too. Maybe they hoped Darroc could also evolve, be redeemed as he (Adam) was from interaction with humans.

4. If Darroc's hostility, animosity, disdain, and grievance against Adam and humans is rooted in Adam's (UK's) *betrayal* of his own kind/his own son, I think redemption just might be possible. (Never thought I'd see it this way!) If Darroc's attitude stems from resentment, feeling of loss, feeling unworthy, he might indeed be redeemed by being loved, valued again.

5. If the UK no longer exists (for all practical purposes), Darroc is a logical new leader of US: he's the UK's son and is more experienced in dealing with other races, worlds, etc. than other US.

6. If Darroc is/was War, how do we deal with that? An US Prince can change (statis/change), but can the embodiment of War change enough to become a good guy?

I hope I haven't walked all over your theory, Jill. These thoughts came in response to your post; I'm not trying to poach, only respond.

Poach away, Beth!!!! Me likey the way you think:wwink:

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 10:00 PM
Excellent points, KJTVH.:60:

Stapes
07-28-2009, 10:09 PM
I agree. I do not think Adam is the UK, Cruce, War, or any of the others that have been speculated. He may be a 'different kind of Fae' and that may be a connection to the Fever series somehow, but I don't see Adam himself being that critical -- maybe because he's already had his story and has his HEA -- and considering the timeline, he is busy raising his kids and exchanging the vows with Gabby while the events of the Fever books are going on.

Hmmm...5 years later..that is kind of an interesting. Adam getting his soul coinciding with the events of the Fever series. QA has been setting things in motion to prepare for the events of this time period-is Adam getting his soul connected? Thanks KJ.

kaeseemcdoogle
07-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Hey guys, first time I have ever posted new thread so this is how much this question is burning me...

I have noticed the following points regarding LM which make me wonder if he isn't ALL that bad,

1. He kept photos of Alina...why would he do that if he was using her? I think he has feelings for her.

2. He told mac that he did not plan on getting rid of Alina when he was done with her (the way he talks to Mac about Alina indicates that he has feelings for her

3. At the end when all the dark princes are having fun with Mac he is the fourth "presence" there but at NO point does it say that he actualy has sex with her

4. He then says... "I think she will obey me now he murmered". I would of thought that if the LM finally got his hands on the only being that can find the book and had her under his control he would be a little more enthusiastic and high on victory. The fact that he murmers indicates that he is not particularly happy about the situation.

One by one not much but I think when taking ALL of the above points it makes me wonder...could it be possible that LM is one of the 5 that QA mentions about placing where they can help her in the future? Is it possible that LM is and has been "working" as a human for QA as a kind of "undercover fae"? After looking at teasers etc I am starting to think if maybe KMM is preparing a twist and maybe a "redemption" of Darroc for future book? I am probably waaaaayyyy off but any points for OR against the above would be great!!! Thanks for yout time everyone
Wow....................I'm just scratching my head! LOLL

I think the LM is bad to the bone!! LOLL Let me see.............to answer your points........

1. The LM only had pictures of Alina, because they were hers and he just had them because they were with the items he stole looking for Alina's journal.

2. I didn't pick up on any feelings that Darroc had for Alina, other than she was a useful tool.

3. No, it doesn't say that he has sex with Mac, but, to me it implied he was in control of the princes.

4. My take at the end, when the LM says he thinks Mac will obey him, 'now', was that he was smug that he won and he 'had' her where he wanted her. Again, he was in control of the princes.

And, since Darroc/LM is the cause for most of the problems going on and who is trying to depose QA, that would be bizzare for him to be one of the '5'..................

DoberDawn
07-28-2009, 10:22 PM
All these philosophical debates are just too deep for me after a hard day at the office... methinks I'll just go play in my candy jar again... or maybe... I'll just watch an absurd video of animated sexy elf disco dancing... What can I say, he's hoping for some action, too...

http://sildona.com/dancefoul/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=27&id=4

Breelia
07-28-2009, 10:26 PM
All these philosophical debates are just too deep for me after a hard day at the office... methinks I'll just go play in my candy jar again... or maybe... I'll just watch an absurd video of animated sexy elf disco dancing... What can I say, he's hoping for some action, too...

http://sildona.com/dancefoul/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=27&id=4

Say, his hair is sort of Darroc's hue! Is that how he got Alina to fall for him? :snick:

Jill
07-29-2009, 12:09 AM
All these philosophical debates are just too deep for me after a hard day at the office... methinks I'll just go play in my candy jar again... or maybe... I'll just watch an absurd video of animated sexy elf disco dancing... What can I say, he's hoping for some action, too...

http://sildona.com/dancefoul/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=27&id=4

LMAO!!!! OMG!!!! Darroc said that he couldn't resist as Napoleon Dynamite is his favorite movie!!!! He says there might be a video of him doing the Macarena with Adam somewhere on YouTube:skeptical:

angboys3
07-30-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't know if we are reading the same book but Derek O'Bannion evens tells Mac that Darroc has something in store for her on Halloween. Darroc tells her when he sends flowers that she needs to help him find Book or he will take away her free will. There's no doubt in my mind that he had every intention of her being raped and made pri-ya and the princes were following his orders. They even stopped when he told them to because if they went any further she would be killed and then be useless to him. He doesn't seem bothered by her rape and even say's quite cold heartedly that he thinks she will follow him now.

If Darroc is redeemed the only way I can see it happening is if he were to make a sacrifice in the end and be killed doing so and I don't think many will mourn him afterwards. The only reason I think there is slight chance of him being redeemed is that he seemed to care for Alina which seems strange considering his view towards humans and how much he despised Adam for liking humans. I don't think he killed Alina or had any intention of kiling her.

.

I agree that Darroc planned the events of Halloween, the city going dark, the walls going down, probably also the rape because he did talk about taking her will. However, I do believe there is a reason that QA hasn't done something about him, why he was left with his memories. I think he will do something that helps Mac, maybe fighting the book.

Doesn't mean he is a good guy, just not completely evil (like the dark book) shades of grey as someone on one of the posts said. Sorry, don't remember who exactly. Look at Mac, she killed someone (by accident, sure but still) , is killing the Unseelie and eating them just to gain power, and feeding them to other unsuspecting people. And she's our good guy in the story! I do think Darroc will be sacrificed at the end but before will play a crucial plot point, that helps the good guys win in the end.

!

Jill
07-30-2009, 08:37 PM
I agree that Darroc planned the events of Halloween, the city going dark, the walls going down, probably also the rape because he did talk about taking her will. However, I do believe there is a reason that QA hasn't done something about him, why he was left with his memories. I think he will do something that helps Mac, maybe fighting the book.

Doesn't mean he is a good guy, just not completely evil (like the dark book) shades of grey as someone on one of the posts said. Sorry, don't remember who exactly. Look at Mac, she killed someone (by accident, sure but still) , is killing the Unseelie and eating them just to gain power, and feeding them to other unsuspecting people. And she's our good guy in the story! I do think Darroc will be sacrificed at the end but before will play a crucial plot point, that helps the good guys win in the end.

!

:cry:

C59100
07-31-2009, 09:49 PM
The only way Darroc can be redeemed is if QA is correct and the human capacity of love is more powerful than fae magic.

Can Darroc love? I don't think so.

Jill
07-31-2009, 10:45 PM
The only way Darroc can be redeemed is if QA is correct and the human capacity of love is more powerful than fae magic.

Can Darroc love? I don't think so.

The human capacity to love IS more powerful than fae magic. I hope Darroc can love!!!! I think he can!!!! He CAN I tell ya!!!!

Irisheyes
08-01-2009, 09:09 PM
I think he's bad ... sorry to those who like Darroc and I'm sure it's already been put in here but he tried to do harm to Adam and gabby and that makes him a bad guy to me .:nah:

V'lane_Obsession
08-01-2009, 10:42 PM
The idea of Darroc being redeemed might be wishful thinking, but I'm keeping my fingers cross!

Jill
08-02-2009, 07:12 PM
I've enjoyed your post as well, Jill! And I totally respect your opinion, matter of fact I acknowledge the soundness in the logic of it :smile:
For the most part I agree with you about Darroc, though I'm not on his band wagon (but hey, that cld change!). I do believe he loved Alina and did not kill her. As well as redeemable in a self-sacrificing kind of way, nor do I think he's all bad.
I just felt as though I had to defend my love for Barrons! That's all. I can't speak for everyone else in the bandwagon, but I know why I love him! :smile:

I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out! ...and the waiting will be the toughest part! :arghhh: but we all don't really have a choice in the matter :sad1: lol.
Yes, the waiting will definitely kill me as well! And I truly do not hate Barrons. I tend to not like the "tortured soul" characters who "lash out" at women because they feel "insecure" in having said feelings in the first place. I had the same problem with Z's character in the BDB. I much prefer a hero like Rhage.

Thank you! I want Barrons and Mac together badly too!!! And honestly, I do believe that she will be with him. It wld be very anti-climatic and the only way I cld continue to love the series is if there was a very good reason why they weren't together and a very good reason she's with someone else. ...But I can't think of that good reason.

And you bring up some good points about Darroc. Which is why I said he could only be redeemable if he sacrifices his life in order to save the world and what not. Adam did wrong too, but he didn't go as far as Darroc. Darroc betrayed his friend (Adam) in what is probably the worst way, "played" w/ humans, and now brought down the walls. IF he is redeemed, I believe that's how it wld play out.
If Karen follows a traditional story arc, then I do believe that Mac and Barrons will end up together. However, if he wants the dark book to end his curse, so he can be with the one he loved before (say, if they said the Druid binding vows to each other), then I don't think they will be together. I am unclear about how Darroc's redemption will play itself out, but I do think it will happen!

Yes, I agree.........I was referring to Jill's post that you were confused about. Adam has always shown he was a different sort of Fae. Darroc, to me, has always acted Unseelie, compared to Adam, if we're GOING to comare.
Yes, I agree! I believe that Adam is the son of a D'Jai prince and another type of fae, either Doine Sith or Mac Fir. I also think that he is the former UK which makes him Seelie. I also think Darroc is the Unseelie Prince War.

I just can't even begin to see where you girls are coming from. The only insight I have on Darroc is pure evil. I'm currently listening to the IH again, audio version, and he is beyond redemption in MHO. After all, he is the one who broke out the Hunters again.................no one else.
There are some reasons that I disagree with you, and I admit that they are very flimsy reasons. First of all, Darroc could have killed Adam and Gabby in The Immortal Highlander, and he never did. He had several opportunities. Also QA could have easily killed him for treason, but she didn't. I think he is like a double agent, and he is working for her. I know it's far-fetched, but this is what I think. Also, Darroc came to Karen with his story. I know....another flimsy reason...but it's still there.

:th_nod: I agree. The thing is how can they say that they think Darroc is redeemable but the UK is not? IMHO at least the UK tried to make up for the wrongs he had committed. Darroc has yet to even show that he is even close to wanting to right the wrongs that he has committed.
I do agree, unless he has had a change of heart way before any of the events happened in The Immortal Highlander. QA has called him one of her most trusted allies, and perhaps someone else like Mael is the real baddie.

Adam and Darroc use to be buddies. They did all the same despicable things until Adam drank from the cauldron. If Darroc had a chance to drink from the cauldron, would he not gain compassion for human as Adam has? If he found his Gabby err... his Jill... don't you think he would end up as Adam? I just think he deserves a chance, this time around we don't know the complete story. Plus wasn't Adam known as the blackest elf?
I am not sure about this. Maybe. Adam still contained a huge amount of darkness within him according to Dageus. It shocked Dageus to the core! I know that QA has placed a high value on human love, even more so than fae magic. I wonder if there was a prophecy about Darroc in addition to others that have been mentioned in Karen's series, and we just aren't aware of it yet. Another thing I can't understand is why the Sidhe-Seers haven't been more proactive in kicking Darroc's butt. I wonder the same thing about the Seelie who seem to be totally absent except for V'Lane.

We don't know the worst that Adam has done.

I never thought that the cauldron would instill compassion, I only thought that if Darroc drank the cauldron, there might of been a chance that he, just like Adam, would see things differently with the memory gone of all the bad things he did.
Maybe.....

you're very right kaeseemcdoogle. The library that Gabby's family had only dated back those many years (actually, I believe even less). Whatever happened before then has no bearing.

Also, to whoever mention Darroc drinking from the cauldron and being able to be compassionate...I don't believe one forgets who they are. They don't totally change altogether if one forgets memories. Only the things shaped by the enviroment they grew up in change. But the core of us, is still the same. But that's getting into the whole nature vs. nurture thing. I'm mainly talking from knowing someone who had permanent memory loss after an accident. She was still who was to the core, only a few things changed and that was what her environment shaped her to be.

Jill, you have some valid points about Adam being the UK and Darroc being War, but there are a few holes and the theory just doesn't all add up evenly.

First off, the UK was never allowed to drink from the cauldron. And we know (from Moning implying so) that Adam had taken a drank from the cauldron at least once. We also know from KMM's Highlander series that he's similar to QA with the synchronacity (sp??) thing and orchestrating things from a distance and in a complex way. He normally works things behind the scenes. This all just isn't his style

I was unaware that the UK never drank from the cauldron. This is the biggest hole yet in my theory then! I just can't get away from the darkness in Adam, and the fact that he was always such a loner, not like a normal Seelie. If Adam is not the UK, then he is something much bigger and badder that Karen hasn't revealed to us yet. She has promised that we would hear from Adam, and I can't WAIT!!!! He is by far my favorite of all her characters.
There was a few other holes I found when I first came across your theory, but that's just from the top of my head.

However, I don't want you to feel attacked or anything. You did a very a good job coming up with all of your thoughts/theorys and giving it good support and making logical sense :th_Clap5:

I'm just boucing of thoughts and ideas to see if we can come up with something that can account for all of the hangups.
thanks!

The only way Darroc can be redeemed is if QA is correct and the human capacity of love is more powerful than fae magic.

Can Darroc love? I don't think so.

I believe that QA'a assessment of human love is correct. I think anyone can love unless they are so overcome with evil that they are dead inside. I hope this isn't the case for Darroc!

Mercedes Veronica
08-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Jill--

what a post woman! lol, you weren't lying when you said you wld respond! lol. I LOVE it!

Ain't nothing wrong w/ not loving the tortured souls! lol, it can be a lot to handle, you know? But I guess that where we differ! I LOVE the tortured soul. lol. Jo told me she likes Rhage better too! lol. I can see why though, I loved him too, just not as much!

You're so called flimsy reasons seem pretty solid to me. I mean why beg karen to tell his story? And granted, it really does seem the QA had a purpose for not killing him....Hmmmm.

As for the darkness in Adam: well, he's the blackest elf. What exactly makes him so black??? and don't forget the elf part. I believe he just loves to play around in ppl's lives. hence the elf part. As for black? that's a relative term. Black compared to what??? iono, just thinking. cld be wrong. Also didn't karen (or QA) say that Cian had darkness in him too? That Daguess or Cian cld have gone either way (evil or good) and CHOSE to be good?? But that drustan was one of those rare types that wld always be good and cld not be corrupted??? (and if he can't be corrupted then cld he be the one to hold the book???)

I believe too in the power of love. I think it's very plausible to believe Darroc is not only redeemable but will be redeemed. I see both sides, and I believe it cld go either way. You have a great defense for Darroc though.

DoberDawn
08-02-2009, 08:05 PM
Mercedes ... don't encourage her!! She's already a hopeless bampot for the LM!!! You're enabling this addiction! :snick:

Mercedes Veronica
08-02-2009, 08:15 PM
Mercedes ... don't encourage her!! She's already a hopeless bampot for the LM!!! You're enabling this addiction! :snick:

:rofl4:
you are so right!!! what was i thinking?!?

Jill, scratch everything I just said! You see, I'm just not in the right frame of mind right now and cannot be held liable for the things I say! Think of it as a drunk text at 2 in the morning! just diregard the whole thing!

Jill
08-02-2009, 08:29 PM
:rofl4:
you are so right!!! what was i thinking?!?

Jill, scratch everything I just said! You see, I'm just not in the right frame of mind right now and cannot be held liable for the things I say! Think of it as a drunk text at 2 in the morning! just diregard the whole thing!

Nope. I can't disregard ANYTHING!!!!! The LM won't let me!!! (...he likes your posts....) Dawn, don't discourage MV in her brilliance!!!!

Mercedes Veronica
08-02-2009, 10:13 PM
it's too late! I have failed jill by enabling her addiction!!!!

natsurd
08-03-2009, 03:19 AM
As for stories I wld love to read?? Christian's, Ryodan's, and Dani's. Especially Ryodan! He is sooo my kinda man next to Barrons. And I wanna know all about Christian's power (and I also LOVE the MacKelters, so I wld love anything that had to do with them). We wld have to wait for Dani to grow up first to get her story (i hope she lives through this!! she's a powerful sidhe-seer with that speed of hers!)

I want Christian and Dani to end up together. :60: He's in his early 20's and she's 14-15. So it could work, in another 10 years. I think Dani is going to have a major teenage crush on him and then that sets the stage for thier story. I hope at least. And I think Ryodan is going to end up with Jo, maybe. It's hard to say cause we don't know anything about them yet.

Jill
08-03-2009, 08:33 AM
I want Christian and Dani to end up together. :60: He's in his early 20's and she's 14-15. So it could work, in another 10 years. I think Dani is going to have a major teenage crush on him and then that sets the stage for thier story. I hope at least. And I think Ryodan is going to end up with Jo, maybe. It's hard to say cause we don't know anything about them yet.

Wouldn't that be fun....a Christian and Dani romance in the future! Methinks it would take a Keltar to handle Dani when she grows up, LOL. I am so excited to read about *Jo*'s character....to see if any of my predictions came true (because I have been teasing her unmercifully these past few months). Probably one of my most outrageous predictions is closest to the truth :snick:. I hope we learn more about Ryodan's character. Maybe he can provide more insight into the conundrum wrapped up in a mystery known as Jericho Zigor Barrons.

Mercedes Veronica
08-03-2009, 09:55 AM
I want Christian and Dani to end up together. :60: He's in his early 20's and she's 14-15. So it could work, in another 10 years. I think Dani is going to have a major teenage crush on him and then that sets the stage for thier story. I hope at least. And I think Ryodan is going to end up with Jo, maybe. It's hard to say cause we don't know anything about them yet.

i do believe i second that! and what jill said about it taking a MacKelter to handle Dani

Sky28
08-03-2009, 10:06 AM
i do believe i second that! and what jill said about it taking a MacKelter to handle Dani
Or a fae prince...:jiggy:

oxymoron
08-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Some thoughts on Darroc, but I need to bring in Lucan. You'll see why.

In SOTH, it appeared evident that QA (in tweaking her threads) used Lucan as her tool to ensure Cian's safe arrival in the 21st century. It was Lucan who:

a) Preserved Cian physically (9th c. to present).
b) Coerced Cian's mother to seal awayKeltar lore, conceal Cian's existence.

Yes, Lucan was the villain in SOTH. But how much of that was due to QA's tweaking? From Lucan's being born of an unknown Druid, to tricking Cian, to imprisoning Cian for centuries, how much was coincidental and how much QA-instigated? Synchronicity?

Yes, Darroc is Bad, He was a major villain in IM, yet was saved from death by Adam & QA. Why? So he could resurface as LM, a major Fever villain? Is Darroc/LM the latest of QA's designated villain-puppets whose purpose it is to force our hero/heroine through hell so he/she can fulfill their destiny?

Yes, QA is now depicted as good. But how much of the villainy, and subsequent suffering, past or present, is QA's bad? The tweaking of Druids ... of Fae ... maybe of Sidhe-seers' lives, was done by QA and brought much pain to the tweakees. What level of Big Badness can be laid at QA's feet and called Synchronicity? In the name of the "greater good" -- a concept Barrons scoffs at. Maybe because he knows good and bad differ only from perspective.

Note: Sorry for all the spoiler brackets, but I tried to not spoil Highlander plots.

Jill
08-03-2009, 08:56 PM
Some thoughts on Darroc, but I need to bring in Lucan. You'll see why.

In SOTH, it appeared evident that QA (in tweaking her threads) used Lucan as her tool to ensure Cian's safe arrival in the 21st century. It was Lucan who:

a) Preserved Cian physically (9th c. to present).
b) Coerced Cian's mother to seal awayKeltar lore, conceal Cian's existence.

Yes, Lucan was the villain in SOTH. But how much of that was due to QA's tweaking? From Lucan's being born of an unknown Druid, to tricking Cian, to imprisoning Cian for centuries, how much was coincidental and how much QA-instigated? Synchronicity?

Yes, Darroc is Bad, He was a major villain in IM, yet was saved from death by Adam & QA. Why? So he could resurface as LM, a major Fever villain? Is Darroc/LM the latest of QA's designated villain-puppets whose purpose it is to force our hero/heroine through hell so he/she can fulfill their destiny?

Yes, QA is now depicted as good. But how much of the villainy, and subsequent suffering, past or present, is QA's bad? The tweaking of Druids ... of Fae ... maybe of Sidhe-seers' lives, was done by QA and brought much pain to the tweakees. What level of Big Badness can be laid at QA's feet and called Synchronicity? In the name of the "greater good" -- a concept Barrons scoffs at. Maybe because he knows good and bad differ only from perspective.

Note: Sorry for all the spoiler brackets, but I tried to not spoil Highlander plots.

Awesome post, Beth!!!:notworthy: Yes, Queen Aiobheal determined that the five most powerful Druids of all time would be available to help her plight in the twenty-first century. What we must determine is who her enemy actually is. By definition the Sidhe-Seers are her enemies. The Compact between man and fae does not involve them, it is only between the fae and the Keltar clan. I have been thinking lately about the fact that the fae basically gave Druidry to mankind. So it seems to me that the Sidhe-Seers are also at odds with Druids. Why aren't the Keltars seeking help from the Sidhe-Seers? Because I think QA is hanging out at Castle Keltar due to the estate's being heavily warded against the fae. She is calling the all the shots. Because she said in Spell of the Highlander that the power of human love is stronger than fae magic, it makes me think she is depending on the power of love to defeat her enemy. I want to know which fae is her enemy (enemies). I also wonder if maybe Adam and his family are holed up at Castle Keltar as well.

As far as Barrons not caring for Utilitarianism, I say: Good for him! A moral act that causes the greatest happiness for the greatest number just plain sucks for the ones who are left out. In Kantianism, if one person can potentially be hurt by a moral act for the greater good, then the act cannot be performed. Mayahap Barrons or someone close to him paid a price for the common good....If Barrons truly believes this, then he would not be the best candidate for Sorcery due to the sacrificial nature of sorcery.

Sorry if I've rambled....I am trying to feed the neighborhood kids (and mine)....

Mercedes Veronica
08-03-2009, 10:19 PM
Some thoughts on Darroc, but I need to bring in Lucan. You'll see why.

In SOTH, it appeared evident that QA (in tweaking her threads) used Lucan as her tool to ensure Cian's safe arrival in the 21st century. It was Lucan who:

a) Preserved Cian physically (9th c. to present).
b) Coerced Cian's mother to seal awayKeltar lore, conceal Cian's existence.

Yes, Lucan was the villain in SOTH. But how much of that was due to QA's tweaking? From Lucan's being born of an unknown Druid, to tricking Cian, to imprisoning Cian for centuries, how much was coincidental and how much QA-instigated? Synchronicity?

Yes, Darroc is Bad, He was a major villain in IM, yet was saved from death by Adam & QA. Why? So he could resurface as LM, a major Fever villain? Is Darroc/LM the latest of QA's designated villain-puppets whose purpose it is to force our hero/heroine through hell so he/she can fulfill their destiny?

Yes, QA is now depicted as good. But how much of the villainy, and subsequent suffering, past or present, is QA's bad? The tweaking of Druids ... of Fae ... maybe of Sidhe-seers' lives, was done by QA and brought much pain to the tweakees. What level of Big Badness can be laid at QA's feet and called Synchronicity? In the name of the "greater good" -- a concept Barrons scoffs at. Maybe because he knows good and bad differ only from perspective.

Note: Sorry for all the spoiler brackets, but I tried to not spoil Highlander plots.

oooo i like this! and jills response. interesting.....

oxymoron
08-03-2009, 10:58 PM
Awesome post, Beth!!!:notworthy: Yes, Queen Aiobheal determined that the five most powerful Druids of all time would be available to help her plight in the twenty-first century. What we must determine is who her enemy actually is. By definition the Sidhe-Seers are her enemies. The Compact between man and fae does not involve them, it is only between the fae and the Keltar clan. I have been thinking lately about the fact that the fae basically gave Druidry to mankind. So it seems to me that the Sidhe-Seers are also at odds with Druids. Why aren't the Keltars seeking help from the Sidhe-Seers? Because I think QA is hanging out at Castle Keltar due to the estate's being heavily warded against the fae. She is calling the all the shots. Because she said in Spell of the Highlander that the power of human love is stronger than fae magic, it makes me think she is depending on the power of love to defeat her enemy. I want to know which fae is her enemy (enemies). I also wonder if maybe Adam and his family are holed up at Castle Keltar as well.

As far as Barrons not caring for Utilitarianism, I say: Good for him! A moral act that causes the greatest happiness for the greatest number just plain sucks for the ones who are left out. In Kantianism, if one person can potentially be hurt by a moral act for the greater good, then the act cannot be performed. Mayahap Barrons or someone close to him paid a price for the common good....If Barrons truly believes this, then he would not be the best candidate for Sorcery due to the sacrificial nature of sorcery.

Sorry if I've rambled....I am trying to feed the neighborhood kids (and mine)....

The bolded part is exactly what I question: Whose greater good is QA really working for. And for whose benefit has QA caused so much suffering in those she's used along the way.

It is only V'lane who has told us QA is working for the benefit of all. And at the end of SOTH, it is clear she knows that she is in dire straits, not just the human world. Yet she says she has positioned the five most powerful Druids .... "Where they could save her." Not save the world, but save "her".

Which leads me to wonder: Although we have been led to believe (by V'lane) that QA is altruistically motivated, we also know she has made grievous errors in the past -- screwed up big time. Maybe someone (or more) of the Fae (a non-evil UK, since his evil is now in the Book, just one possibility) feels she has screwed up one time too many -- that she is not the best ruler for the Fae, and not acting in everyone's best interests, and her maneuverings of Keltar, and other, lives were purely selfish.

So, Darroc is still bad, as Lucan was bad, as the Draghar Cult members were bad. But QA could be a bigger bad. Maybe her enemy is not necessarily Mac's or the human world's enemy. It is possible that her enemy has a different and broader view of the greater good.

C59100
08-04-2009, 07:48 PM
Adam caused BtHM and THT, and by giving the McIllioch males a gift, he caused TTaHW.
KotH was caused by gypsies who were guided by a motherís fear. Maybe QA caused Gwen to find this highlander.
DH was due to a manís decision not to let his brother die. In the end QA decides to use this opportunity to nullify all magic in the area (which allows for Cian) and to strengthen the Compact with the MacKelters. She also agrees to appear to each generation of MacKelter so that they will never doubt the existence of the Fae again. And she left his memories in tack (her benefit)
IM was due to Adamís speaking out against QA in front of her council, he was questioning her decisions. It was Adam who chose to make Darroc human and not to kill him. Ya I said it, Adam is the bad guy (DK)
SH, the result of one mans greed for power and anotherís quest for OOPs.

I donít believe she caused the pain and suffering which each Highlander has had to suffer, but she made the best out of saving them all.

Ollie
08-04-2009, 11:06 PM
Some thoughts on Darroc, but I need to bring in Lucan. You'll see why.

In SOTH, it appeared evident that QA (in tweaking her threads) used Lucan as her tool to ensure Cian's safe arrival in the 21st century. It was Lucan who:

a) Preserved Cian physically (9th c. to present).
b) Coerced Cian's mother to seal awayKeltar lore, conceal Cian's existence.

Yes, Lucan was the villain in SOTH. But how much of that was due to QA's tweaking? From Lucan's being born of an unknown Druid, to tricking Cian, to imprisoning Cian for centuries, how much was coincidental and how much QA-instigated? Synchronicity?

Yes, Darroc is Bad, He was a major villain in IM, yet was saved from death by Adam & QA. Why? So he could resurface as LM, a major Fever villain? Is Darroc/LM the latest of QA's designated villain-puppets whose purpose it is to force our hero/heroine through hell so he/she can fulfill their destiny?

Yes, QA is now depicted as good. But how much of the villainy, and subsequent suffering, past or present, is QA's bad? The tweaking of Druids ... of Fae ... maybe of Sidhe-seers' lives, was done by QA and brought much pain to the tweakees. What level of Big Badness can be laid at QA's feet and called Synchronicity? In the name of the "greater good" -- a concept Barrons scoffs at. Maybe because he knows good and bad differ only from perspective.

Note: Sorry for all the spoiler brackets, but I tried to not spoil Highlander plots.

I think her main goal is to selfishly save herself and prove she is the most powerful fae. She doesnít want to fail and loose what she has. I think eating humble pie doesn't go down so easy for fae. I think an extra bonus thrown in, is she will have to save the human race in order to accomplish her staying Queen so it would seem she is acting for all. She put her most powerful druids through a test, using the evil men and true love to strengthen and bring everyone together at her time of choosing. Sort of like it has to storm before the sun and rainbow will come out. I do think she left Darroc memories for a reason, just like she used Lucian to keep Cian till his true mate was near. And I think that will play a huge role for Mac finding her strength and true love. How ever, if the Queen makes it through all of this. I think she will have a different understanding of humans and love. She won't be so puzzled why her Adam Black could have fallen in love with them. And love may effect in some form in the future.

As far as someone being very upset at how the Queen is handling things and how she is pulling to many threads and using evil in the processÖIíve always wonder if Barrons doesnít play a part in that some how. I donít have my book to quote them exactly but..
1)When Barrons is telling Mac, she needs to choose a side and not play the middle against each other. Meaning Vílane and Barrons. Vílane is so called there on the Queens behalf. Does that mean Barrons is against the Queen???
2)When Ryodan tells Mac that her motives arenít so pure, that she honestly doesnít give a crap about the world but is only selfish. So is Barrons motives for the whole world??

Mercedes Veronica
08-04-2009, 11:25 PM
As far as someone being very upset at how the Queen is handling things and how she is pulling to many threads and using evil in the process…I’ve always wonder if Barrons doesn’t play a part in that some how. I don’t have my book to quote them exactly but..
1)When Barrons is telling Mac, she needs to choose a side and not play the middle against each other. Meaning V’lane and Barrons. V’lane is so called there on the Queens behalf. Does that mean Barrons is against the Queen???
2)When Ryodan tells Mac that her motives aren’t so pure, that she honestly doesn’t give a crap about the world but is only selfish. So is Barrons motives for the whole world??

excellent questions
to the second one: I think Ryodan is pointing out to Mac that she's a bit hypocritical. She was talking about how mean and bad Barrons was to her (how it hurts me to say that about Barrons!). I don't think he was implying that Barrons motives were for the whole world, just that neither of them are pure at heart and she's pretty much calling the kettle black!

to the first one: hmmmm, i think it could imply that JZB is against QA putting strengthening the walls (but I don't like this theory:wno:) but it also could be as simple as her choosing between V'lane and Barrons (her love interests) not so much the bad or good side. Remember they have history together and hate each other--playing both from the middle in either case isn't a good idea.

what do you think about that???

oxymoron
08-05-2009, 01:30 AM
I think her main goal is to selfishly save herself and prove she is the most powerful fae. She doesnít want to fail and loose what she has. I think eating humble pie doesn't go down so easy for fae. I think an extra bonus thrown in, is she will have to save the human race in order to accomplish her staying Queen so it would seem she is acting for all. She put her most powerful druids through a test, using the evil men and true love to strengthen and bring everyone together at her time of choosing. Sort of like it has to storm before the sun and rainbow will come out. I do think she left Darroc memories for a reason, just like she used Lucian to keep Cian till his true mate was near. And I think that will play a huge role for Mac finding her strength and true love. How ever, if the Queen makes it through all of this. I think she will have a different understanding of humans and love. She won't be so puzzled why her Adam Black could have fallen in love with them. And love may effect in some form in the future.

As far as someone being very upset at how the Queen is handling things and how she is pulling to many threads and using evil in the processÖIíve always wonder if Barrons doesnít play a part in that some how. I donít have my book to quote them exactly but..
1)When Barrons is telling Mac, she needs to choose a side and not play the middle against each other. Meaning Vílane and Barrons. Vílane is so called there on the Queens behalf. Does that mean Barrons is against the Queen???
2)When Ryodan tells Mac that her motives arenít so pure, that she honestly doesnít give a crap about the world but is only selfish. So is Barrons motives for the whole world??

I think we agree on QA's goals, Ollie, though V'lane would have Mac and us think differently. Re your questions:

1) I believe Barrons is definitely QA's adversary in the main game. V'lane is only her lackey (yet another tool) in her attempts to gain control of the SD via Mac, if V'lane is being truthful in all he has said. V'lane may appear to be JB's rival for Mac's prurient inclinations, but JB is QA's rival in the quest for the Book.

2) I'm unclear yet whether Barrons represents the UK, or whether he is a separate entity pursuing the Book. I'm leaning toward the separate entity.

The UK was selfish, maybe he's better now. QA has been selfish, but may have potential for better. They need to join forces to get Seelie and US under control -- wipe out infighting. Such a scenario leaves Barrons a free agent to fulfill a prophecy or two -- regain what once was. :th_nod: