Not loving first person!!!

[Celticlove]

:anim_soapbox-vi:ok so I have always read third person. I love third person!!!!!!!:6: but Dark Fever is first person and I keep waiting for it to switch over to the other characters in the book so I know what they think feel history and all that jazz I love that!

It took be 3 solid day to read this book and if she describes her cloths and nails and repeats all that crap on more time!!! then I get to the last page and im no closer to knowing whats going on the I was to began with!!!

now dont get me wrong I love the story plot and all and it intrigues me as to what is going to happen but Tell me Blood Fever is not in first person? Its just to mind numbing!!! It there a a special way to read first person be cause i dont have a clue who any of the other players are and I really think Mac is shallow in a way be cause its cloths this and i dont have and i use to have blah blah blah! HELLO her sister is died and her life is in danger and all she can think about is how her biggest problem use to be hair and nails?
Was she at Disneyland before her sister died? maybe in a bubble? and when your in the middle of a new country and all I dont think you would stop to think about how pretty your cloths are and if they match!!!:anim_soapbox-vi:

anyways rant is over and I feel better! dont take this post to hard because I felt the same way about the lord of the ring movie when i watched the whole think on tv for 3 hrs and it ended with Photo (notice i did not even catch the name?!!!) in the middle of nowhere!!!! I just dont like to be left hanging!:49:

[Viking Princess]

LOL the first person threw me too the first time I read DF, but it didn't bother me too much. Then again this was about the same time I was in my creative writing class and our second story we were to write had to be in a different perspective that our first. I used 3rd-Omniscient for my first, which is what all the Highlander novels were, and so my second story had be 1st person (and I pushed the prof to let me do 3rd limited but he wasn't budging). Karen's book coming out that month and being in first person was both shocking and extremely helpful. There are not many 1st person books I can think of off hand that I like, beside the Lestat books in Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles and Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series.

It is a harder persepective to both read and write. For an author to pull it off well is a great feat. Even in a third person narration of DF we would find out about her hair and clothes when it shifted to her, just it wouldn't be as personal. Third person tells the story from a distance. Even if the narration is 3rd-Omniscient, we see everything as though a fly on the wall (who can read minds apparently) and often get some dramatic irony when we know things before the other characters do. Essentially, it is cheating ourselves the experinece of the actual character because 3rd person is the literary equivalent of watching tv or a movie. You see everything laid out before you.

1st person is an intimate journey into a character's life (if the narrator is the main character and not a side character as in The Great Gatsby.) You see through their eyes, make judgements based on their judgements, and as long as your narrator isn't unreliable (as in the narrators in Poe's short stories), you live the story as that character. It is more difficult to write in first person because of tense. You have to decided: did this happen?, is it happening?, or will it happen? It is extremely easy to shift tense an not realize it, trust me from my own experience with it, and I think Karen did a great job of only shifting when necessary instead of unintentionally.

So that is my defense of 1st person, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. My advice for reading 1st when you prefer 3rd is try to relate to the character in some way. Even if it is small. You have to shift yourself into the character, imagine you are Mac or you know her and she is telling you over a cup of coffee or something. I am from Savannah, so the Georgia Peach in me took right to Mac and that was my method of identifying with her. I also have to comment on primping after a loved one died. My grandfather died this summer and my sister, who is 15 and truely a little priss who can't live without doing her hair and makeup and everything, cried at the funeral...but that didn't stop her from fixing her face in the bathroom and flirting shamelessly with the young, hot Marine who was there since my grandfather was a war vet.

[Celticlove]

I think that was my problem I am not girly girl-ish I could care less about cloths and hair and nails. I thing in 3rd person I dont mind the describtion of cloths and all because it is another person telling you what they are wearing and how they feel about it. when the person describes there own cloths its like bra panies dress blah blah on and on the list goes and when they takl about how they feel about there cloths its like "cant the chick be anymore self-centered?" Mac Rarely had thoughts about Barrons or analized him in a way that gave me a clue about how she felt about him or what she thought.

but at the end of the book she was getting more aware of others.... I dont know... maybe this was the set up book and the others will be better?

I just feel like I know more about the shades, gray man and many mouth think then the other humans in the book....

Are they all first person?

[Viking Princess]

Mac Rarely had thoughts about Barrons or analized him in a way that gave me a clue about how she felt about him or what she thought.

but at the end of the book she was getting more aware of others.... I dont know... maybe this was the set up book and the others will be better?

I just feel like I know more about the shades, gray man and many mouth think then the other humans in the book....

Are they all first person?

Read BF. She still has her moments of wanting to be pretty. You can take the girl out of the pink, but you can't take the pink out of the girl. But there are very noticable changes in her by the end of BF. A lot of people I know who have read it like her far better in BF than DF. Mac starts out so shallow, but is becoming a very complex, dynamic character. She tries not to think of her feelings for Barrons, and is constantly trying to make excuses for thinking of him. One point in BF she blames ovulating for a brief moment of thinking of the two them nakey together ;) She is at point where she wants to be who she was, but no longer wants to be that way...if that makes sense. DF was setting up the story plot, and BF is where the characterization starts to build a lot more noticably.

[Viking Princess]

And I am not very girlish either. I rarely wear make-up and my hair is so thick I would rather wear it in a pnytail or loose bun than down. I wear dark colors, never wear skirts, and I hate pearls.... so Mac and I would never would have engaged in a conversation in highschool. Give her some time ;) by Shadowfever she may grow on you unexpectedly...like a chia pet :P

[Celticlove]

Ok but I am really going to cry if it doesnt happen soon..... lol

I am still waiting to get bf in paper back so I am still on pens and needles...

[Viking Princess]

lol! see I have no patience. Have you checked any local libraries to see if they carry the book or can do an interlibrary loan from another library? You could always go to Barne and Nobles or a bookstore with a sittign area and read it :P When Media Play was open here I read a whole book in 3 days. wrote the page i stopped at on my hand and went back after a few days to continue reading it. I was sooo broke...but it got the book read :03:

I know, I know. Shame on me.

[stormsandsins]

DF was my first KMM book, so I wasn't exactly thrown. Yeah, I prefer third person because the narrator is omniscient. But then the element of mystery and danger is just there: you don't know what the hell is going on. So big plus for making first person work, KMM!

Besides, I think Mac is moving away from her frivolous nature. She's holding on to it loosely now I think.

[Celticlove]

i spent the day going back and re reading parts think I need to make a notebook myself and put a page for each person place and thing...I mabe able to get more out of it that way.... I just got so frusterated because it was 1st person and then it left me hanging at the end.... I REALLY HATE THAT! anyways I like my paperback books because when i go to work travel or what ever i can stick it in my purse....hard back books you cant to that with. and when I start a book it is glued to me where i go it goes without fail untill the last page is read! i am just weird that way....:th_read:

[oracle]

Try reading Karen's blog. Her latest posting talks about her experience with writing POV. And I happen to love Mac and here's a link to a post I had that outlines why I love her so:

http://www.karenmoning.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1470

Mac is not your cookie cutter heroine. She grows. She develops. She equivocates. She stumbles. She denies. She wants her shallow easy life back. She's very real to me.

I like the POV. It keeps things mysterious and forces us to learn things right along with Mac, no sooner...Here's a bit of something else I wrote elsewhere (because I'm lazy):


It is a (marvelous IMHO) suspenseful series that has elements of romance and lust as you make your way through it. It has just enough romance and tension to keep me going. This series isn't a romance quickie. We have to court the series, take her out a few times, meet her parents, neck a little, hold hands, share a sodapop. Maybe even marry her before we get her into bed...Except in Mac's case, it's not anything so sweet and gentle, we have to hold her hand as her world gets turned upside-down and the baddies keep knocking her around trying to encourage her to expire...While Barrons doesn't spend most of the books making love to her, he makes sure she's stays alive. What better foreplay than that...The wait is delightful...

[Celticlove]

thanks for the link I will check it out.... :)

[LMCLAURIN]

i spent the day going back and re reading parts think I need to make a notebook myself and put a page for each person place and thing...I mabe able to get more out of it that way.... I just got so frusterated because it was 1st person and then it left me hanging at the end.... I REALLY HATE THAT! anyways I like my paperback books because when i go to work travel or what ever i can stick it in my purse....hard back books you cant to that with. and when I start a book it is glued to me where i go it goes without fail untill the last page is read! i am just weird that way....:th_read:


that is such a good idea i am def. going to do that:happy0158:.. i have been sort of lost here for a while, i keep getting so caught up in the story that im not noticing all of these clues.. and i am def. the same way whenever i start reading a good book.

[MacKeltarLover]

yeah... i agree with oracle....but thn again i agree with you... it does get kinda tiring...but know everything will come out better....i cant wait for faefever!!!!

[claudia celestial girl]

Hi MacKeltarLover!

I have to admit to hating Mac at first too. (My guilty admission, since I've been devoted to the story ever since). I even wrote that on Amazon.com! It was my second KMM story, and I bought it on audiobook on a long car trip. If I hadn't have been desperate for something to listen to, I would have thrown the CDs out the window!

Now I believe that we are going to see tremendous character growth with Mac, and to have a big arc, you have to start somewhere.

Meanwhile, I've come to love the 1rst person, as KMM is using it. It makes you work as a reader to see through the lines to 'get' what the other characters are doing/thinking. That is one reason there is so much activity on this board - folks are sharing their insights with other readers, trying to get the bigger picture. For me, it is fun to have an author have so much richness to a story that when you work at it, there is more to be revealed. Like an onion.

I think (my prediction), if you keep reading you'll enjoy this series as much as the rest of us. But you have to put your thinking cap on, and use your heart as well. Just like you would in real life! ;-)

[Cheryle]

I have to say that the first person did not bother me much. Although, I have read all of KMM's books before and I knew that she is a fantastic author. I also knew going into the book that it would be different. I think that might have helped me.

I have to say I loved the new angle, to me it was refreshing. I actually enjoy reading the first person now because of KMM.

I think you will really love Bloodfever and enjoy the growth of Mac as a character. I know I have.

[Celticlove]

LOL I am glad that i am not the only one that the first person POV through for a loop! and I am also glad that I am not the only one that thought Mac was.....ah....there lest fav.!

I have got a handy note book with a outline of each (ok will have each!) character in the book. then I am going to get a clue book and pick out the important stuff as i go back and reread the book. by that time bloodfever will be in paper back and I will be up to speed on whats going on so i dont get a headache trying to read and figure out why i am so lost! lol

Thank you Ladies for your help!!

[snakecharmer]

Hello there Ladies,
I am a huge fan of Karen Marie Moning and I have to say I love how she is using first person writing technique for the Fever books. Having read her Highlander books I know that she had used the 3rd person technique and that we as her readers became familiar with this style or writing when in association with Karen Marie Moning's books. Even though this is a series that you can associate with past books, it is a new series with new characters who I think are more complex then her past characters. I like how we dont know what everybody is thinking and feeling. I think that when we know what is going on in everyones mmind it makes the plot and ending easier to figure out. I like that in the Fever series we are seeing through one persons eyes. Mac is a maturing character and I like how she was naive in the beginning. When she encountered the Unseelie and was in denile and freaked out it was I think a real reaction. In the Highlander series some of the heroine where tossed back in time and met fae like Adam and delt with the situation in a quick easy manner. I for one would have a really hard time get a grasp on reality if my whole world was tossed into a fairy tale. I also think that because the reader doesnt know anything about Jericho Barrons it leaves us reader wanting more because we want to know "Everything" there is to know about him. So personally it makes for a more fascinating hero, because we as the reader dont know who Macs going to pick in the end yet. So yeah I like this new style. It kinda reminds me of how Nora Roberts wrote her other series under the name J.D. Robb.

[Kilea]

I have to agree Mac really really bugged me at first, what with her obsession of all things pastel. After I read the second book I started to understand why Karen portrayed Mac that way. At 22, living an extremely sheltered and pampered life, you can see how Mac would be that way. Thankfully she starts to grow out of those things in the second book.

If I had to guess, Mac will always hold on to those things that make her seem so shallow, for no other reason than she doesn’t want to lose herself. The pastel obsession is who she is and though she may grow out of it she will hold on because she identifies with it. By book 7 I'm sure she will be a kick butt character who still loves pink.

The third person thing was really hard to get into. I think part of that was Mac's obsession with girlish things that I couldn't identify with. Every time I read one of those lines I just rolled my eyes. The other reason I had a hard time with the first person was because I wanted to get into JB's head. What the heck was that man thinking? After a while I got so into the story that the first person thing faded into the background.

I still wish we could see the story from JB's point of view. How about a spin off of the Fever story told from JB's point of view. :) Wouldn't that yummy.

Kilea

[Beware_of_Italics]

I never gave the third person/first person much thought. I think that's just the way Mac came to Karen. She's a strong character who has seen a lot and has a lot to say. No head hopping for Mac. She wants Karen to hear the truth from her viewpoint alone. :65:

Kristin

[Brenda]

I agree. I think a big part of the series will be Mac's character development.
First person doesn't bother me at all. I never really thought much about it, but as long as my mind stays in the story and I'm receiving all the info...(shrugs)

[Jewelstir]

I never gave the third person/first person much thought. I think that's just the way Mac came to Karen. She's a strong character who has seen a lot and has a lot to say. No head hopping for Mac. She wants Karen to hear the truth from her viewpoint alone. :65:

Kristin

Excellent point, Kristin.

I think Karen said it best when she said she wanted us to explore watching the world falling apart. As readers, we are piggy-backing Mac's experiences. If we are frustrated because we don't know exactly what is going on, doesn't that put us right where we should be? - out of our comfort zone, confused - wondering what in the heck is going on, trying to take some control of Mac's (our) world and questioning everything and everyone?

I literally felt dizzy with possibilities, theories and doubt after I finished reading BF. So, as far as I'm concerned, KMM has succeeded in conveying the chaos of the end of the world as we know it.

Althought that could be because I love to solve puzzles, so I'm kind of determined to solve all the mysteries that seem to be popping up in this series. Alas, I think I'm just going to have to wait out the series. Oh well....lemme go do a soduko! At least I know I can solve that tonight! :65:

[diana]

i couldn't have said it better thanks

[eternallove]

Honestly I love first person. I mean don't get me wrong I love third person, but the truth is that for this story first person works, first person hides all the secerts from the readers and makes us bewildered till point that Moning is willing to share.

[BlueCoyote]

i liked the character for being honest about herself.. i could identify with that lol
"Yeah i sure was a bone-head! but boy did i learn my lesson!!" is what i got out of it.
indeed when i got my copy of it (borrowed from the library only a couple of days ago) i didnt think.. didnt flip through pages... i just saw the latest book, snatched it and ran away to check it out. then rushed home to read it.... was lying there on my sofa with my nose buried in that book thinking "OK... this is cute but... whens it gonna switch to third person?" didnt take long to realise it WASNT going to switch! i grumbled about it to my husband, he just laughed and told me "Thats why you're supposed to read a few pages before you get the book" - i swear if it werent for instruction manuals i would wonder if he even knew how to read :34: -
i fought the urge to put the book down.. but after she made it to Dublin i was already hooked and knew there was no way i could STOP reading.
i'll be honest and say i am not a real fan of first person. i cant even name a first person novel right now.. especially not one that i really liked except for Black Beauty and the Bar Sinister! and i was disappointed to say the least..

However, as others pointed out.. the first person style is on a more personal level. not like you're some floating cloud of a *cough*faery*cough* just observing and amusing yourself with the emotions of these mortals!
nooooo! you were bewildered when she was bewildered! mad when she was mad! scared, nervous, mortified etc etc. or at least i was!

of course there were some parts where i just wanted to bop her on the forehead like in the V8 commercials.... like for example: the picture frame would have been the first place i would have looked for a missing journal!!! but this isnt me.. this is more like one of my friends grabbing me by the shoulders and screaming "OMIGOD-Do-you-know-what-i've-just-been-through!!!!"

and i love the silent conversations between her and Barrons.. again i can totally relate lol i'm a huge fan of body language and silent messages exchanged by a glance..

nah Mac is a different character from all the others!! I live in the south and i know her type. heck.. she's like one of my cousins lol has no time for ethereal fantasy sci/fi other worldly mumbo jumbo of any sort.. its a joke and she'll laugh at your Harry Potter obsession. she has a ton of shoes, beautiful nails and hair. very very much a valley girl.. she's even blond lol so... yep when i am reading Mac i am picturing my cousin bouncing along through Dublin and smiling while she eats her french fries... even if its not a "real" smile lol one of my cousins specialties! she was a cheer leader in high school and she knows how to really flash you a smile despite the aching feet, itchy costume and wedgies!

this new series, if its all first person, will be a bit of a challenge for me, but i loved all the other books and i'm ready to love these as well. i'll keep reading them and anxiously await the next one.








...ok honestly.... cat out of the bag here... i was more disappointed at the lack of raunchy stuff than first person lol i kept wondering how she was going to write one of THOSE scenes in first person.. and looks like i'll have to wait till i read the next book to find out!
....yeah i'm a perv sometimes....

[HopeChasez]

:anim_soapbox-vi:ok so I have always read third person. I love third person!!!!!!!:6: but Dark Fever is first person and I keep waiting for it to switch over to the other characters in the book so I know what they think feel history and all that jazz I love that!

It took be 3 solid day to read this book and if she describes her cloths and nails and repeats all that crap on more time!!! then I get to the last page and im no closer to knowing whats going on the I was to began with!!!



I totally understand what you mean. There is a huge difference between first person and third person. I have to say I love both, in different ways. Mac was a bit too "pink" in the beginning...but after a while, I either got used to it or it decreased in frequency. After changing her hair...missing it, yeah we got it...but that went away after a while too.

The first time I really read first person continuously was when I read Phillipa Gregory's novels set during Henry VIII...about his wives and such. Those were in first person and they were incredible. The last was in 3rd person and...worst of the bunch.

When Karen first mentioned this series...it wasm ade known that it would be all about Mac and her journey. So if it were 3rd person, it would just be another story. Mac's story would have to come from her eyes, the glossary from her journal...th characters from what she sees. We don't know exactly who/what many characters are because SHE doesn't.

It may be frustrating not to know everything at the end of the book, but that's why this is a series...with all the same characters repeated. There is no happy ending at the end of Darkfever, like normal books (even those part of a series). For example, the Highlander series...was a series because the characters were connected...interwoven...etc. But each book had its own ending (beginning with Hawk and Adrienne's happily ever after...through Drustan/Gwen, Dageus/Chloe...etc). They all had their endings.

But with the Fever series...it doesn't end at the end of the book. It's a "To Be Continued..." If we all knew who Barrons was...or we knew that Alina's boyfriend was definitely Darroc...and all that...the next book would be like 10 pages long. There would be no character development - unless a whole new set was created (which there probably is a whole new set of characters, but in order to flow first book into second, second into third and so on...there has to be a continuous development of the original set of characters).

Make any sense? I guess I'm just trying to work through what Karen and other writers who choose to write 1st person is trying to convey through the style.

I'm an amateur writer...short stories here and there...nothing published except in a newspaper as a journalist -_-'' But I write in both third person and 1st person, depending on the story...what the plot is...what the dynamics are...and which style would best affect the reader's thoughts, emotions, etc.

right...back to work! :65:

[Aeris]

i'll tell you what... before reading any of KMM's books, you couldn't have paid me to pick up a first person book by anybody. but i fell in love with KMM's highlander series and her writing style. because she had earned such high (highest now) ranking in terms of my favorite authors, i didn't even think twice about picking up DF. now i could care less. i feel like the POV being in first person for this series is imperative to its telling now. it adds to the mystery. i mean look at the way we've filled up this forum lol... obviously KMM is doing something right lol...

[Sarah_D]

LOL! Hm. I think you only have a problem with the first person, because it does not show the feelings Barrons, V'lane, Christian has got for Mac--as in the Highlander-Series where we all saw, how Adam felt for Gabby, Circenn for Lisa etc.etc.etc.

But now we have only Mac's point of view--though I write my story also in first person--and as Karen said: The story came to her in first person. I don't think, that the story would be as good as it is now, if Karen would force the other character's to tell the story from their point of view--and what would Mac say?

Maybe there'll be more view-points in the following books, but do you really think that the books would be the same, if there'd be other point of views there, if the story came to Karen in first person?

[stormsandsins]

And I am not very girlish either. I rarely wear make-up and my hair is so thick I would rather wear it in a pnytail or loose bun than down. I wear dark colors, never wear skirts, and I hate pearls.... so Mac and I would never would have engaged in a conversation in highschool. Give her some time ;) by Shadowfever she may grow on you unexpectedly...like a chia pet :P

lol I just saw this post (after how many months?) and the song won't get out of my head now. Damn you!

"Chi-chi-chi-chi-CHIA!"

[BlueCoyote]

LOL! Hm. I think you only have a problem with the first person, because it does not show the feelings Barrons, V'lane, Christian has got for Mac--as in the Highlander-Series where we all saw, how Adam felt for Gabby, Circenn for Lisa etc.etc.etc.

But now we have only Mac's point of view--though I write my story also in first person--and as Karen said: The story came to her in first person. I don't think, that the story would be as good as it is now, if Karen would force the other character's to tell the story from their point of view--and what would Mac say?

Maybe there'll be more view-points in the following books, but do you really think that the books would be the same, if there'd be other point of views there, if the story came to Karen in first person?


yeah that was part of my gripe lol but its very clever!! if we knew right off what Barrons was.... wouldnt be nearly as exciting would it? it would probably be a lot thicker of a book considering the amount of detail you add in per character....
of course i cant help but think "What if Harry Potter was written in First Person?" :th_thud:

[Sarah_D]

yeah that was part of my gripe lol but its very clever!! if we knew right off what Barrons was.... wouldnt be nearly as exciting would it? it would probably be a lot thicker of a book considering the amount of detail you add in per character....
of course i cant help but think "What if Harry Potter was written in First Person?" :th_thud:

That's what I'm saying--and of course we _all_ are curious about what he thinks, feels about and for Mac, but I think we'll find that out--by time, even when we don't see the story of his point of view.

Well, Harry Potter isn't written in the first person-in the third, but again JK only writes in the first books in his view point. So even if Karen would write from Mac's View Point just in the third point of view--it wouldn't change anything 'cause again,we only see what Mac thinks/sees/feels.

[Saint]

it does not matter to me if it is written in 1st or 3rd person. All books that I read are good. sorry to deflate any body ....

[Sarah_D]

it does not matter to me if it is written in 1st or 3rd person. All books that I read are good. sorry to deflate any body ....

That's the same way I do it.

[BlueCoyote]

That's what I'm saying--and of course we _all_ are curious about what he thinks, feels about and for Mac, but I think we'll find that out--by time, even when we don't see the story of his point of view.

Well, Harry Potter isn't written in the first person-in the third, but again JK only writes in the first books in his view point. So even if Karen would write from Mac's View Point just in the third point of view--it wouldn't change anything 'cause again,we only see what Mac thinks/sees/feels.

true you're right about that! its third person but might as well be first... duh i noo dat! lol :65:

as was already stated... any other author and i would probably have skipped over this series.. well maybe not lol this material is something i absolutely love.. but i got burned by a previous book i read written by a man giving the POV of a teen age girl.. similar stuff... fairies, mystery, racing against a deadline etc.... i just suffered through it and not even sure why.. so by chapter 2 of the Fever series i was having bad memories lol the only consolation was .. Karen is actually a GIRL!! not a man pretending to be a girl... that matters a great deal sometimes.

[Sarah_D]

true you're right about that! its third person but might as well be first... duh i noo dat! lol :65:

as was already stated... any other author and i would probably have skipped over this series.. well maybe not lol this material is something i absolutely love.. but i got burned by a previous book i read written by a man giving the POV of a teen age girl.. similar stuff... fairies, mystery, racing against a deadline etc.... i just suffered through it and not even sure why.. so by chapter 2 of the Fever series i was having bad memories lol the only consolation was .. Karen is actually a GIRL!! not a man pretending to be a girl... that matters a great deal sometimes.

I'm glad that Karen did not skip this story! We all are GIRLS <g>

[Celtic Heart]

I love the Fever series (so far) - I haven't read the Highlander series yet (they're on tap for a long snowy weekend!) - but, I think the first person works incredibly well.

I've read other series written in first person, and my only complaint with one of them is that the protagonist never learns. She keeps making the same stupid mistakes, and by the tenth book, it's no longer funny. (Actually, it stopped being funny by about the fifth book, but no one's told the author that yet.) Mac, on the other hand, has grown by leaps and bounds. Yes, she started out rather shallow and very sheltered, but the character development is astounding. I can hardly imagine the woman she will become by the seventh (I believe there's going to be seven, but I can't remember where I read that) - or last book, whatever number that may be.

I am certain I will re-read books one and two several times while waiting for Faefever to come out.