JB Clues??

[Michelle*My*Belle]

Darkfever, pg.53, exactly halfway down the page. "He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein....

Hummmm. I will keep reading b/c I'm on a JB identity mission now.:th_duhhhh-vi:

[MissAmy]

I'm happy to announce that I finally got a round to ordering Darkfever...I can't wait till it comes.. I'm going to dorp any book I'm reading at the time and start reading and of course taking notes.

[Sue71]

I'll take all the clues I can get. Has there been a list of everything we know about J.B. made? If we could come up with a list of hints and things we do know about him it might give us more to chew on. LOL

[MissAmy]

I think thats a great idea Sue.

[*Jo*]

I am going to reread Dark...well, because quite honestly I wasn't thrilled with whining MAC with the pink fingernails & toenails. SO sorry lasses, but I just couldn't like her but I did feel for her sister alot.:anim_brick-vi::49: JB , I drooled over right away though. Now you all can throw rotton vegetables at me...FEEL free !

[Michelle*My*Belle]

If Shades don't bother JB, what's with all the lights inside his shop, and outside? Why does it seem that JB reads Macs mind? He moves lightening fast, does he sift through time and space?

[MissAmy]

I can't say if I like or dislike MAC yet.. When I finish the book I'll tell you what I think.. I for one don't like whimpy women.

[Michelle*My*Belle]

I am going to reread Dark...well, because quite honestly I wasn't thrilled with whining MAC with the pink fingernails & toenails. SO sorry lasses, but I just couldn't like her but I did feel for her sister alot.:anim_brick-vi::49: JB , I drooled over right away though. Now you all can throw rotton vegetables at me...FEEL free !


I thinks she starts off being someone I would dislike. Prim and proper, pampered and a mamas girl. (BUT her parents sheltered her too) She quickly adapts to her situation and, although she struggles, she gains some respect from me.

[*Jo*]

I thinks she starts off being someone I would dislike. Prim and proper, pampered and a mamas girl. (BUT her parents sheltered her too) She quickly adapts to her situation and, although she struggles, she gains some respect from me.
...I have to think on this. I can however see your point.

[alba]

...I have to think on this. I can however see your point.
Off topic I love the new AVI:thewave:

[claudia celestial girl]

I am going to reread Dark...well, because quite honestly I wasn't thrilled with whining MAC with the pink fingernails & toenails. SO sorry lasses, but I just couldn't like her but I did feel for her sister alot.:anim_brick-vi::49: JB , I drooled over right away though. Now you all can throw rotton vegetables at me...FEEL free !
OMG! I HATED Mac when I first started reading DF. I thought I would never be able to admit it on this board! I was listening to the audiobook on a long trip to the BAy ARea, and if it wasn't for the fact that I had nothing else to listen to, I would have thrown the book out the window. I kept thinking if she says one more thing about what moisturizer she uses, I'm going to scream! I even wrote a luke-warm review of the book on Amazon.com and put it on my 'worst' list [it's also on my best list] because of a herione who is 'too stupid to live.' But Mac has grown on me. I finally could see that she grew a lot in the story (and has more growing to do, no doubt about that). JB more than makes up for all the deficiencies in Mac!

[Jennifer]

I can't say if I like or dislike MAC yet.. When I finish the book I'll tell you what I think.. I for one don't like whimpy women.

You know, I kind of felt the same way when I first started reading, but I felt more and more throughout the book that she was finding out, not necessarily how shallow she was, but just that that wasn't the real Mac... quite honestly, Mac kind of reminds me of Eowyn (sp?) from LOTR.....I didn't really like her at first either, not at ALL, but then I saw her slay the Witch King, and I thought...d*mn girl!....you GO, that's my GIRL!!! Good analogy...or no?

[*Jo*]

OMG! I HATED Mac when I first started reading DF. I thought I would never be able to admit it on this board! I was listening to the audiobook on a long trip to the BAy ARea, and if it wasn't for the fact that I had nothing else to listen to, I would have thrown the book out the window. I kept thinking if she says one more thing about what moisturizer she uses, I'm going to scream! I even wrote a luke-warm review of the book on Amazon.com and put it on my 'worst' list [it's also on my best list] because of a herione who is 'too stupid to live.' But Mac has grown on me. I finally could see that she grew a lot in the story (and has more growing to do, no doubt about that). JB more than makes up for all the deficiencies in Mac!
...OMG, I DID the same thing...I wrote that I love Karen 'TO DEATH'. Her highlanders are to die for. However, this was a book where you either caught the bus or missed the boat...I thought the ride was tedious. When I checked the reviews on Darkfever before I bought it there were 4. (Now I think it's at 3-3 1/2. AND you are correct about Eowyn, LOTR.) So I have reread TAME, DARK Highlander, and today I was going to reread DARKFEVER...'cause I'm usually done in a day then I'll see if my opinion changes any...BUT I can still love JB AND isn't America great...I can have freedom of speech, just hope I don't get my a$$ kicked over it ...JENNIFER, YOU ARE the best TWIN anyone could ever hope to have...Love YA' OOOpppsss! I forgot...& Claudia so we were the triplets...or quads because of ALBA, I forgot ...

[*Jo*]

Off topic I love the new AVI:thewave:
Thanks...LOVE men, big, braw, a little different, SEXY wings...for steering !

[claudia celestial girl]

LOVE men, big, braw, a little different, SEXY wings...for steering !

Then you must love the Dark King! ;-) He's got those wings ... a little different ..

I confess to thinking the Dark King is sexy. And I love the wings thing. Queen Abby thinks he is sexy and she's got good taste in men (she likes Adam, after all). He's another of KMM's controlling and manipulative men. Why do I love them so much? I dunno.

[*Jo*]

Then you must love the Dark King! ;-) He's got those wings ... a little different ..

I confess to thinking the Dark King is sexy. And I love the wings thing. And Queen Abby thinks he is sexy. He's another of KMM's controlling and manipulative men. Why do I love them so much, I dunno.
I love the mystery in THAT unseelie too. Always thought that if Karen wrote in very explicit detail about THAT one...WE'D all be goners fer sher...Woosta dialect !

[alba]

Darkfever, pg.53, exactly halfway down the page. "He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein....

Hummmm. I will keep reading b/c I'm on a JB identity mission now.:th_duhhhh-vi:
When I read quotes about like the neck along the pluse or Heart line(artery)
its right before they are bitten:51:Not NOT saying JB a VAMP I still think he is Druid I also think he is like V,lane but the ward's have some kind of hold on him.

[alba]

When I read quotes about like the neck along the pluse or Heart line(artery)
its right before they are bitten:51:Not NOT saying JB a VAMP I still think he is Druid I also think he is like V,lane but the ward's have some kind of hold on him.
Thats LICKING the neck:th_duhhhh-vi:

[*Jo*]

Thats LICKING the neck:th_duhhhh-vi:
Yeah sure, okay...alba !

[*Jo*]

Michelle or anyone lucky enough to have won the TEASER from one of LEIHA'S contest...I need to ask the following::th_read: 1) The howling. What time was it ? AM, PM, Foggy or mist, clear, raining as decriptive as possible and 2) Described as MAC did when she heard the sound, as descriptive as possible please ! :47:I have a theory and I need to find out the answers before I can tell what JB is...:th_type:

[Michelle*My*Belle]

Michelle or anyone lucky enough to have won the TEASER from one of LEIHA'S contest...I need to ask the following::th_read: 1) The howling. What time was it ? AM, PM, Foggy or mist, clear, raining as decriptive as possible and 2) Described as MAC did when she heard the sound, as descriptive as possible please ! :47:I have a theory and I need to find out the answers before I can tell what JB is...:th_type:


AM, just before dawn. Says that the moon was still shining bright. I guess that means it was a clear sky.

I will personal message you the rest. I don't want to SPOIL it for anyone! >:)

[Cheryle]

I have to say I am going to rule out JB as a vamp in the booklet he is in the shop in the daytime when the Inspector is in talking to Mac about the Lord Master's house and reopening case.

[*Jo*]

AM, just before dawn. Says that the moon was still shining bright. I guess that means it was a clear sky.

I will personal message you the rest. I don't want to SPOIL it for anyone! >:)
....Good enough for me...

[Danielle42]

Darkfever, pg.53, exactly halfway down the page. "He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein....

Hummmm. I will keep reading b/c I'm on a JB identity mission now.:th_duhhhh-vi:


OK, now I'm sure JB is a vampire.

(1) he's clearly not afraid of Malluce

(2) knows Malluce isn't one (and seems disgusted that anyone else thinks he is)

(3) is never seen in daylight

(4) is left alone by the Shades (if he's undead anyway, why bother?)

(5) is long-lived/immortal? (when Malluce asks if he has a deathwish he says something like: "might. but you won't be helping me with that."

(6) implies that he's damned

a - from the January newsletter

"Damn you, Barrons!" I shouted...
He gave me a smile that chilled my blood: inhuman, cold, savage...
"I'm afraid someone already beat you to that, Ms. Lane," he said, and laughed.

b - from the February newsletter:

"Sometimes--devil help me..." (not the usual "God help me...")

(7) Has Malluce's strength and more (from the last fight scene, where he flings Malluce aside)

(8) And of course, the quote that Michelle gave above:

"He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein.... "

Seems pretty attracted to blood, eh?

He's clearly not Fae because Mac doesn't affect him the way she affects the other Fae.

Whaddaya guys think?

[Cheryle]

OK, now I'm sure JB is a vampire.

(1) he's clearly not afraid of Malluce

(2) knows Malluce isn't one (and seems disgusted that anyone else thinks he is)

(3) is never seen in daylight

(4) is left alone by the Shades (if he's undead anyway, why bother?)

(5) is long-lived/immortal? (when Malluce asks if he has a deathwish he says something like: "might. but you won't be helping me with that."

(6) implies that he's damned

a - from the January newsletter

"Damn you, Barrons!" I shouted...
He gave me a smile that chilled my blood: inhuman, cold, savage...
"I'm afraid someone already beat you to that, Ms. Lane," he said, and laughed.

b - from the February newsletter:

"Sometimes--devil help me..." (not the usual "God help me...")

(7) Has Malluce's strength and more (from the last fight scene, where he flings Malluce aside)

(8) And of course, the quote that Michelle gave above:

"He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein.... "

Seems pretty attracted to blood, eh?

He's clearly not Fae because Mac doesn't affect him the way she affects the other Fae.

Whaddaya guys think?


Have you read the booklet yet? I am pretty sure he is in the daylight there.

[VWolf]

I think we are all in suspense ready to find out as soon as we can!!

I for one am preplexed by him. Intrigued.

~Vette

[claudia celestial girl]

OK, now I'm sure JB is a vampire.

(1) he's clearly not afraid of Malluce

(2) knows Malluce isn't one (and seems disgusted that anyone else thinks he is)

(3) is never seen in daylight

(4) is left alone by the Shades (if he's undead anyway, why bother?)

(5) is long-lived/immortal? (when Malluce asks if he has a deathwish he says something like: "might. but you won't be helping me with that."

(6) implies that he's damned

a - from the January newsletter

"Damn you, Barrons!" I shouted...
He gave me a smile that chilled my blood: inhuman, cold, savage...
"I'm afraid someone already beat you to that, Ms. Lane," he said, and laughed.

b - from the February newsletter:

"Sometimes--devil help me..." (not the usual "God help me...")

(7) Has Malluce's strength and more (from the last fight scene, where he flings Malluce aside)

(8) And of course, the quote that Michelle gave above:

"He pressed his lips to the side of my neck. I felt his tongue where my pulse fluttered, tracing my vein.... "

Seems pretty attracted to blood, eh?

He's clearly not Fae because Mac doesn't affect him the way she affects the other Fae.

Whaddaya guys think?
While I don't have any firm answer, I'm going to play devil's advocate. You've listed great reasons in the 'pro' column, for JB to be a vampire, though I would also add his aversion to religious/Christian relics. How about the following in the negative column:

a) JB is out in the daytime (though not necessarily daylight) - once when he rescues Mac from 1247 LaRuhe street and again in the booklet (which if you haven't read, it's sort of like inside information).

b) both Malluce and Ellis (another possible vampire?) are described as being sinuous, pale, and anemic-looking. That hardly describes JB.

What if JB is undead, immortal, and cursed to need blood, but is NOT a vampire? What if he is a werewolf - or better yet, the 'thing' that Jo came up with. The Vikolac is a being that seems to be a cross between a vampire and a werewolf. If I understand Jo's description, it is a Druid who was cursed by some higher power into channeling wolf-like characteristics. The Vikolac doesn't drink blood like a vampire, it is a legendary creature, and also doesn't only come out on the full moon. Whaddaya think of that???

[Danielle42]

Have you read the booklet yet? I am pretty sure he is in the daylight there.

Just sent in my SASE today - can't wait to get the booklet!

Still doesn't rule that out - remember when Barrons warns Mac that Malluce is after her, he says that garlic, holy water and a stake through the heart won't help her against him - which may mean that all those myths about vampires aren't true, including daylight...

Anyway, I think he's something along those lines. I guess we'll just have to spectulate amongst ourselves until October. I can hardly wait!

Danielle

[Cheryle]

Just sent in my SASE today - can't wait to get the booklet!

Still doesn't rule that out - remember when Barrons warns Mac that Malluce is after her, he says that garlic, holy water and a stake through the heart won't help her against him - which may mean that all those myths about vampires aren't true, including daylight...

Anyway, I think he's something along those lines. I guess we'll just have to spectulate amongst ourselves until October. I can hardly wait!

Danielle

Touche girl Touche!!! I love to speculate it is so much fun. :happy0158:

[Danielle42]

While I don't have any firm answer, I'm going to play devil's advocate. You've listed great reasons in the 'pro' column, for JB to be a vampire, though I would also add his aversion to religious/Christian relics. How about the following in the negative column:

a) JB is out in the daytime (though not necessarily daylight) - once when he rescues Mac from 1247 LaRuhe street and again in the booklet (which if you haven't read, it's sort of like inside information).

b) both Malluce and Ellis (another possible vampire?) are described as being sinuous, pale, and anemic-looking. That hardly describes JB.

What if JB is undead, immortal, and cursed to need blood, but is NOT a vampire? What if he is a werewolf - or better yet, the 'thing' that Jo came up with. The Vikolac is a being that seems to be a cross between a vampire and a werewolf. If I understand Jo's description, it is a Druid who was cursed by some higher power into channeling wolf-like characteristics. The Vikolac doesn't drink blood like a vampire, it is a legendary creature, and also doesn't only come out on the full moon. Whaddaya think of that???

Devil's advocate, eh? :33: Well, Devil help me, I think you may be right! :03:

Who's Jo? I'm afraid I'm still catching up on the outerworldly lingo...

Danielle

[*Jo*]

Devil's advocate, eh? :33: Well, Devil help me, I think you may be right! :03:

Who's Jo? I'm afraid I'm still catching up on the outerworldly lingo...

Danielle
Well, Hi ! I'm Jo, Capital J, small o. Not to be confused with another memeber JOJO. I AM, as you say,"outerworldly lingo" aka troublemaker too ! Welcome to the board. I hope that you post often. You've decided to join one h*ll of a great group of ladies here...

[claudia celestial girl]

Devil's advocate, eh? :33: Well, Devil help me, I think you may be right! :03:

Who's Jo? I'm afraid I'm still catching up on the outerworldly lingo...

Danielle
Ah Ha! So you caught that little reference in the teaser where JB says - 'Devil help me'! Now ... what does he mean by that???

And I see you've been introduced to our resident troublemaker. ;-)

[claudia celestial girl]

OK. Suppose JB IS a vampire, and supposed Malluce is also a vampire ... Remember the time Mac asks JB about Malluce:


“You don’t think he is a vampire,” I said in a hushed voice, as we picked our way through room after room of stoned-looking people …

He laughed briefly, a hollow, humorless sound. “If he is, the one that made him should be drowned in holy water, defanged, gelded, skinned, staked, and left to blister agonizingly in the sun.”

JB could almost be referring to himself. Although I doubt he would use the term 'gelded' in that case. In any case, JB would probably know the person?

I was rethinking that scene because Mac said almost nothing was what it seemed to be that day...

[MissAmy]

Ok heres a question that has gotten me..Remember when Mac looked out the window of her bedroom above the bookstore and saw JB walking amoung the Shades and wasn't touched be them.. My question is how come the Shades didn't attack JB?

[Danielle42]

“You don’t think he is a vampire,” I said in a hushed voice, as we picked our way through room after room of stoned-looking people …

He laughed briefly, a hollow, humorless sound. “If he is, the one that made him should be drowned in holy water, defanged, gelded, skinned, staked, and left to blister agonizingly in the sun.”

JB almost sounds offended by the idea that Malluce is a vampire - kind of an embarassment to the vampire/cursed/undead world.

While JB himself may not be a vampire (or perhaps vampires can go about in the daylight, if that is what the booklet implies - I haven't seen it yet!! :( ) he certainly seems like some sort of dark, cursed creature.

Also, in the fabulous Bloodfever excerpt on the website, JB says:


"That nothing is worth more than your life, Ms. Lane. Some things are. Don't put too high a premium on it. You may live to regret it."

Perhaps he made some sort of Faustian bargain with his life and that si what cursed him...

[Cheryle]

I most definately agree that JB is cursed but I am just not sure he is a vampire. I could be wrong but who knows!

[MissAmy]

I feel JB is not a vampire, but more like he got himself into trouble..

[claudia celestial girl]

JB almost sounds offended by the idea that Malluce is a vampire - kind of an embarassment to the vampire/cursed/undead world.

While JB himself may not be a vampire (or perhaps vampires can go about in the daylight, if that is what the booklet implies - I haven't seen it yet!! :( ) he certainly seems like some sort of dark, cursed creature.

Also, in the fabulous Bloodfever excerpt on the website, JB says:



Perhaps he made some sort of Faustian bargain with his life and that si what cursed him...
Danielle42 - you've got to get your hands on that Booklet! Then we can really talk! (like we haven't been talking non-stop already). Be sure to send an envelope to Leiha - see the 'sticky' elsewhere on the board.

Meanwhile, like you, I'm in the crowd that thinks JB's gotten himself into maybe a little Faustian-style bargain! But who cursed him? Now that is an interesting question. I've been holding out for one of those ancient gods - like maybe the ones mentioned in Dark that the 13 Druids turned to "who's name is best forgotten' ... (page 303). Can't wait to find out!

And ... after you've read the booklet, then we can get back to your comments here and continue the train of thought with a new question - what are those **** spoiler alert**** OK - you'll just have to go to the Bloodfever thread for that question!!! :anim_lolabove-vi:

[Bella...]

I have to say I am going to rule out JB as a vamp in the booklet he is in the shop in the daytime when the Inspector is in talking to Mac about the Lord Master's house and reopening case.{Daylight Drugs} MAYBE ??? ...WEELLLL !! lol ... it has happened to some other vampires I read about ... I am going to take ME idea & go to bed ... :th_goingtobed-vi: ... {snickering} heeeheeeee....

[Danielle42]

Danielle42 - you've got to get your hands on that Booklet! Then we can really talk! (like we haven't been talking non-stop already). Be sure to send an envelope to Leiha - see the 'sticky' elsewhere on the board.


And ... after you've read the booklet, then we can get back to your comments here and continue the train of thought with a new question - what are those **** spoiler alert**** OK - you'll just have to go to the Bloodfever thread for that question!!! :anim_lolabove-vi:


Sent out the SASE on Monday. I just hope it comes before I move or I'll have to wait for it to get forwarded - argh! I've been trying to stay away from all the spoiler messages and I REALLY appreciate that folks have been so careful not to ruin it for those of us waiting to read the booklet. However it has been tempting...

Waiting with bated breath!

Danielle

[Cheryle]

Sent out the SASE on Monday. I just hope it comes before I move or I'll have to wait for it to get forwarded - argh! I've been trying to stay away from all the spoiler messages and I REALLY appreciate that folks have been so careful not to ruin it for those of us waiting to read the booklet. However it has been tempting...

Waiting with bated breath!

Danielle


You will enjoy the booklet Danielle, but unfortunately it will leave you wanting more! I felt like pulling my hair out afterwards LOL!

[Danielle42]

In the scene between JB and Fiona (that Mac overhears), Fio is clearly in love with JB (Mac hears that in her voice) and they appear to be speaking and acting as if she and JB are/were lovers - she is jealous, she has "served his needs", he calls her is "foolish, sweet, faithful Fio" - but are no longer.

Yet, Fio is in her early fifties, while JB is in his thirties.

While I have no problem with an older woman being with a younger man :th_anim_naughty-vi: that is not the impression I get here. Rather it's more like they met and became involved when she was younger and now she has aged while he has not.

What do you think - another piece of evidence supporting the thesis that JB is immortal?

[Danielle42]

You will enjoy the booklet Danielle, but unfortunately it will leave you wanting more! I felt like pulling my hair out afterwards LOL!

I have no doubt, but like a true addict, I find myself desperate for the next fix! Then I can join the booklet discussion with the big girls! :03:

[Cheryle]

In the scene between JB and Fiona (that Mac overhears), Fio is clearly in love with JB (Mac hears that in her voice) and they appear to be speaking and acting as if she and JB are/were lovers - she is jealous, she has "served his needs", he calls her is "foolish, sweet, faithful Fio" - but are no longer.

Yet, Fio is in her early fifties, while JB is in his thirties.

While I have no problem with an older woman being with a younger man :th_anim_naughty-vi: that is not the impression I get here. Rather it's more like they met and became involved when she was younger and now she has aged while he has not.

What do you think - another piece of evidence supporting the thesis that JB is immortal?

I thought maybe the Gray man got ahold of her and maybe somehow JB saved her from him. Maybe that is why she appears old, that is just a possiblity I am throwing in the air.

[claudia celestial girl]

What do you think - another piece of evidence supporting the thesis that JB is immortal?

I"m one of those that believes that, as you point out, the seeming age difference is a sign that JB is a lot older than he looks.

[MeShelle]

What if she has been faithful to him in another way other than a relationship... I do believe he is older than he seems but from that scene i really didnt get the impresion that they were involved intimatly but more like a work basis type of relationship.... ofcourse i tend to over examine and i might be wrong.... yet i honestly dont see a intimate relationship between JB and Fio

[MeShelle]

Ok i was read from another post i cant remember were from that JB might be a Fomorian... I read up to see what a formorian was... This is what the website discribed
"The origins of the Fomorians, also known as Fomhoire or Fomorii, are unknown. The name Fomorian can be derived from an ancient name for Scandinavia, Fomoria. The Fomorians are however described as dark haired and dark toned creatures, features suggesting a Mediterranean origin. Apart from Tory Island the Fomorians are said to have lived also in Scotland and Norway.Their name might also be derived from the Gaelic Faoi Mhuir, meaning Beneath the Sea, although other scholars think that Mor means Phantom or Spirit.In Irish mythology the Fomorians, often described as sea creatures or giants or otherwise misshapen humans, represent evil and darkness. Some scholars assume that the Fomorians were the Neolithic farmers of Ireland."

[claudia celestial girl]

Ok i was read from another post i cant remember were from that JB might be a Fomorian... I read up to see what a formorian was... This is what the website discribed
"The origins of the Fomorians, also known as Fomhoire or Fomorii, are unknown. The name Fomorian can be derived from an ancient name for Scandinavia, Fomoria. The Fomorians are however described as dark haired and dark toned creatures, features suggesting a Mediterranean origin. Apart from Tory Island the Fomorians are said to have lived also in Scotland and Norway.Their name might also be derived from the Gaelic Faoi Mhuir, meaning Beneath the Sea, although other scholars think that Mor means Phantom or Spirit.In Irish mythology the Fomorians, often described as sea creatures or giants or otherwise misshapen humans, represent evil and darkness. Some scholars assume that the Fomorians were the Neolithic farmers of Ireland."
This is soooo cool!

[Danielle42]

As I just wrote to Jo in a PM, I was just lounging in bed at 8:45 pm :th_goingtobed-vi:, thinking that I would go to bed REALLY early tonight since my DH is out of town and I'm flying solo with the little one when two thoughts about JB popped into my head. Since I also remembered that I had neglected to shutdown the computer, here I am. So much for an early night...

OK, two things that stick in my mind:

(1) why did Mac's comment about being mercenary strike such a sensitive a nerve with JB? Mac herself comments on it in the book...

(2) what's with Mac and JB's telepathic connection? A few times in DF, Mac thinks that JB is practically reading her mind and she even asks about it at the end, during their flight. In the BF excerpt, she and JB have one of their little silent conversations, which leads me to believe that they are actually speaking telepathically in some way.

Thoughts?

(Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I will get to bed early-ish tonight once I catch up on the other threads...)

[MeShelle]

As I just wrote to Jo in a PM, I was just lounging in bed at 8:45 pm :th_goingtobed-vi:, thinking that I would go to bed REALLY early tonight since my DH is out of town and I'm flying solo with the little one when two thoughts about JB popped into my head. Since I also remembered that I had neglected to shutdown the computer, here I am. So much for an early night...

OK, two things that stick in my mind:

(1) why did Mac's comment about being mercenary strike such a sensitive a nerve with JB? Mac herself comments on it in the book...

(2) what's with Mac and JB's telepathic connection? A few times in DF, Mac thinks that JB is practically reading her mind and she even asks about it at the end, during their flight. In the BF excerpt, she and JB have one of their little silent conversations, which leads me to believe that they are actually speaking telepathically in some way.

Thoughts?

(Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I will get to bed early-ish tonight once I catch up on the other threads...)

That same question about how mac and jb talk to each other has been woundering around in my head:33:... My only thought takes me to Touch on how Circenn and Lisa can talk to each other without really talking... I could be way off but at the moment thats my only explanation

[Cheryle]

(2) what's with Mac and JB's telepathic connection? A few times in DF, Mac thinks that JB is practically reading her mind and she even asks about it at the end, during their flight. In the BF excerpt, she and JB have one of their little silent conversations, which leads me to believe that they are actually speaking telepathically in some way.




I think the JB and Mac have chemistry, I can convey alot of what I need to say to my DH without speaking to him, and finish his sentences which can be rather annoying. I think if you have a deep chemistry with someone you don't neccissarily have to have a pshychic connection.

However, if they do that is totally cool and I wonder how that will be revealed or if that is how easy JB can find her.

[claudia celestial girl]

I think the JB and Mac have chemistry. I can convey alot of what I need to say to my DH without speaking to him, and finish his sentences which can be rather annoying. I think if you have a deep chemistry with someone you don't neccissarily have to have a pshychic connection.


Yes, that's how I view it as well. I think it says more about their emotional intimacy than any psychic abilities. My sense is that it's completely different from the Circeen, Lisa thing. It is not triggered by their sex life - that's for sure. ;-)

[claudia celestial girl]

(1) why did Mac's comment about being mercenary strike such a sensitive a nerve with JB? Mac herself comments on it in the book...


I don't now, but my sense is that JB, having made a sort of Faustian bargain, may be somewhat sensitive about the notion of 'selling himself.' (?)

[oracle]

Yes, that's how I view it as well. I think it says more about their emotional intimacy than any psychic abilities. My sense is that it's completely different from the Circeen, Lisa thing. It is not triggered by their sex life - that's for sure. ;-)

I really do think, though, that their connection is psychic or something Karen will explain because their exchanges are very detailed. I would consider it a figment of Mac's if imagination but JB speaks out loud in response to this wordless exchange. Though you may attempt to read someone's face, you usually aren't 100% accurate...

[Danielle42]

I really do think, though, that their connection is psychic or something Karen will explain because their exchanges are very detailed. I would consider it a figment of Mac's if imagination but JB speaks out loud in response to this wordless exchange. Though you may attempt to read someone's face, you usually aren't 100% accurate...

Exactly -in their exchanges, it's not just that JB senses what she means - he actually responds to direct questions that she only thought but didn't say out loud.

Sounds like telepathy to me... Guess we'll just have to see!

[Danielle42]

I don't now, but my sense is that JB, having made a sort of Faustian bargain, may be somewhat sensitive about the notion of 'selling himself.' (?)

Could it have had something to do with money? If he "sold' himself for a good reason, then he would have no reason to be senstive about being called mercenary.Or perhaps that is the reputation he has (deserved or not) and he's a bit sensitive about it.

Clearly he is concerned with wealth and status - he has lots of expensive toys (cars) and in both DF and the BF excerpts, he shows a lot of concern over his pricey stuff: his sofa (doesn't want a sopping wet Mac to sit on it) and his expensive rug.

[oracle]

Ok, there have been references to JB possibly being a Fae Prince of either Seelie or Unseelie origin and that according to JB, you can't tell the difference between Unseelie or Seelie royalty. This is is a shot in the dark, but I think Mac would know since she seems to be the most power of her sidhe-seer kind. Also, when Mac goes to the pub for dinner and sees the Fae that she mistakes for a theiving human, she is enthralled by his beauty and is subsequently disgusted as she recognizes that he is a thinly veiled abomination. Of course there is no indication that this Fae is royalty though the "abomination" part indicates that it is Unseelie. So what do you think? Is JB Seelie or Unseelie (that's if you think he's Fae)?

[claudia celestial girl]

Clearly he is concerned with wealth and status - he has lots of expensive toys (cars) and in both DF and the BF excerpts, he shows a lot of concern over his pricey stuff: his sofa (doesn't want a sopping wet Mac to sit on it) and his expensive rug.

It could have something to do with concern over wealth and status, or it could be the outward expression of the boredom of someone with an extremely long life. You know how people behave who are unemployed all of the sudden? They become obsessive over little things?

[claudia celestial girl]

Is JB Seelie or Unseelie (that's if you think he's Fae)?

JB says that the Unseelie destroy - because they can ...The Unseelie prey on humans, co-opting qualities that they don't have: beauty, light, life. JB doesn't seem like the kind who has those kinds of needs. He doesn't seem to need to be worshipped (like Malluce). He offers Mac some great advice about being pessimistic. In the teasers he also offers some great comments about how you go forward when your world has fallen apart. These are not the thoughts and feelings of an Unseelie, it seems to me.

I'm not saying that I think he is Fae - I'm still an unbeliever. But if he was Fae, I think he would be Seelie.

[Danielle42]

[QUOTE=claudia celestial girl;8107]It could have something to do with concern over wealth and status, or it could be the outward expression of the boredom of someone with an extremely long life. QUOTE]

Very interesting observation. Someone who has lived with and lost many mortals over his long life could become overly attached to things - things that remain, that don't age and die like humans do.

Like Claudia, I don't think JB is fae. As was mentioned before, Mac would know it, being a very powerful Null. Also, she can't freeze him and he's not afraid of the spear the way V'lane was.

I think he is a powerful, gifted mortal like Mac. Not a Null but someone with other gifts, as he puts it. The more I think of it, the more I think he is a talented human who, like Cian and Dageus, got on the wrong side of something very powerful. I tend towards Cian: someone who played with fire, with something or someone very powerful thinking he could handle it and got burned.

[Cheryle]

[QUOTE=claudia celestial girl;8107]It could have something to do with concern over wealth and status, or it could be the outward expression of the boredom of someone with an extremely long life. QUOTE]

Very interesting observation. Someone who has lived with and lost many mortals over his long life could become overly attached to things - things that remain, that don't age and die like humans do.

Like Claudia, I don't think JB is fae. As was mentioned before, Mac would know it, being a very powerful Null. Also, she can't freeze him and he's not afraid of the spear the way V'lane was.

I think he is a powerful, gifted mortal like Mac. Not a Null but someone with other gifts, as he puts it. The more I think of it, the more I think he is a talented human who, like Cian and Dageus, got on the wrong side of something very powerful. I tend towards Cian: someone who played with fire, with something or someone very powerful thinking he could handle it and got burned.


Exactly!!!

[*Jo*]

ABOUT this discussion...for the most part I agree that 90% of what JB is...Karen has only mentioned adornments, torques specifically on fae royalty, cuffs have been on human - Druids, Cian. V'Lane, I don't recall having his clothes completely off in MAC's eyes anyway and she had been more focussed on the sexual to notice if V'lane had sandals on his feet, much less a torque around HIS neck...But I still say that the curse definitely zeros in with other books and what those heros were or were not, SEE tame where Gavrael is a berserker-warrior. JB is I still say, Unseelie (because the relics are of white gold or silver in nature opposed to Seelie which all have been gold. The Compact, torque, Cuff of Cruce...)JB = Fae royalty,warrior yes on the other side who will be recruited to the SEELIE side (because Queen 'A' NEEDS an army in order to fight the Unseelie. You can't do it with a handful of Fae, because their #s have not increased per other highlander books, loosing a D'Jai fae prince to the mortal realm) cursed or d*mned definitely, cannot find the missing relics because he can't SEE or feel them(same as V'Lane states of the fae not being able to detect them, that's why V'Lane seeks out Mac supposedly for the queen), wears a torque of silver or white gold & cuff because on the other he wears a platinum watch with white diamonds, again WHITE or silver, missing when the Shades invade the bookstore, howling in the back garage, actually two distinct noises (Fio,too ?) when the moon was full...HAS possibly touched THE DARK BOOK because of numerous references to anyone "TOUCHING the book turns into something else entirely"(THANKS ALBA) aka VILKATAS, Baltic-Celt, prisoner by magic...or IF JB pre-dates CIAN, then a sorcerer, Black Magyk kind and NOT FAE...because we know druids that include Cian and before him, might have wore adornments, torques & cuffs as a symbol of the relationship of the compact between man & fae...or should I say DRUID & Fae...

[*Jo*]

TATTOOs, & lifted tartan by Cian from Lucan while Cian was in the Scrying Glass, Unseelie Hallow for 1133 years. Cian was druid Dark sorcerer, MacKeltar with tattooed runes of red & black on is body to protect himself from the backlash of dealing with dark arts...When his own tartan had fallen off his body from rot, Cian lifted one from LUCAN TREVAYNE and brought in the glass to wear. RED & black dominant colors, same as tattoos. This was not an accident. The tartan I mean. The MacKeltar is not the only DRUID family. There are many not named.Lucan had brutally obtained training from druids, weak ones. Nameless all. Lucan was a bastard from a druid & a whore...Lucan was a druid himself, and Welsh, but a druid all the same. Last name, TREVAYNE. Ok. Mac Keltar, Trevayne, therefore not exclusive of the MacKeltars being druids.
Mac has red & black on her own wrist when her arm was splinted. JB had reset her arm & stitched her up... JB ...dabbling in the dark arts...runes "held the repercussions of meddling with black magycks at bay" pg.#249 SPELL. Is that how Lucan came into the plaid ? JB?
Black & red, predominant colors. What clan ? I came across a few. Cummings, Ramsey, MacQueen, Brodie (heard that before).
JB, Ramsey (a relative of ALBA's J/k) or MacQueen.Could be either.I pick MacQueen. Clan crest, head of a wolf, red & black tartan, 'son' of the QUEEN (A ? perhaps, royalty). Gaelic definition of Barrons came up nil but "Did you mean? AND fourth name listed. BRENNUS. 4th century GAUL leader sent to defeat the Romans. OK. So, could be Basque-Celt. Right genetics & location.
Jericho (Biblical city in Israel, near GAUL), Barrons, NOPE but Brennus...Gaelic.
Jericho Barrons, Brennus MacQueen
Jericho Barrons, Brennus Ramsey, or any name close to these...
NOW that makes ones head spin...

[MissAmy]

You girls like to go in deep don't you...lol I'm all confused...

[Cheryle]

My mind keeps changing I am with you Amy they are in deep LOL!

[Danielle42]

Ohh yes, she answered...yeah! :03:


JB = Fae royalty,warrior yes on the other side who will be recruited to the SEELIE side (because Queen 'A' NEEDS an army in order to fight the Unseelie. You can't do it with a handful of Fae, because their #s have not increased per other highlander books, loosing a D'Jai fae prince to the mortal realm) cursed or d*mned definitely, cannot find the missing relics because he can't SEE or feel them(same as V'Lane states of the fae not being able to detect them, that's why V'Lane seeks out Mac supposedly for the queen

But he can see the hallows, unlike the other Fae who can't even SEE them (according to V'lane)

On the other hand, that doens't preclude him being a fae-turned human...


...or IF JB pre-dates CIAN, then a sorcerer, Black Magyk kind and NOT FAE...because we know druids that include Cian and before him, might have wore adornments, torques & cuffs as a symbol of the relationship of the compact between man & fae...or should I say DRUID & Fae...

Ah - even more evidence - thanks Jo, I missed those. Now I'm even more convinced he's the later, i.e. human.

[oracle]

Ohh yes, she answered...yeah! :03:

But he can see the hallows, unlike the other Fae who can't even SEE them (according to V'lane)

On the other hand, that doens't preclude him being a fae-turned human...

Ah - even more evidence - thanks Jo, I missed those. Now I'm even more convinced he's the later, i.e. human.

I think they can see the hallows since V'lane definitely saw and feared the spear in Mac's possession at the museum. They just can't sense them and therefore cannot locate them...

[*Jo*]

Ohh yes, she answered...yeah! :03:



But he can see the hallows, unlike the other Fae who can't even SEE them (according to V'lane)

On the other hand, that doens't preclude him being a fae-turned human...



Ah - even more evidence - thanks Jo, I missed those. Now I'm even more convinced he's the later, i.e. human.
TRUE....But even Cian, being the 7th child (of a 7th son ???, his dad had brothers who were also druids who had VOICE,DEEP LISTENING,ALCHEMY...living at the same time as Cian even though Cian's father was killed in a hunting accident (NOT) in SPELL,had all those & new characteristics THAT no other Keltar has ever displayed, before or after according to Queen 'A', pages #301 in her own words. AND Queen 'A' just doesn't specify KELTAR there only,she said 'druids'...especially focus on page # 62 of Spell and reread. There is TMI on that page ! JB to me, is an ancient, either JUST before or JUST after Cian. Queen 'A' also states she had altered circumstances yet again, very end of pg.300-top of 301. SO JB SEEING the HALLOWS can very much be another FLUKE that wasn't counted on...I really am confused as to WHAT JB is today on, SO DRUID/damned/sorcerer/warrior/clansman/immortal/Vilkacis ? *or* FAE/damned sorcerer/warrior/clansman/immortal/Vilkacis ? ...HELP....BUT JB does wear silver torque & cuff but like I said druids & fae alike have worn those types of adornments so far in Karen's work...We'll just have to see what's beneath the cement flooring...

[anne]

I am going to reread Dark...well, because quite honestly I wasn't thrilled with whining MAC with the pink fingernails & toenails. SO sorry lasses, but I just couldn't like her but I did feel for her sister alot.:anim_brick-vi::49: JB , I drooled over right away though. Now you all can throw rotton vegetables at me...FEEL free !

I'm with Jo in my feelings about Mac. So far, she hasn't shown me anything to like. So shallow and vain and I can't believe someone her age and with her attitude in life so far, would go flying off to Ireland to get answers/solve her sister's murder. It doesn't fit. She might mature but how long would that take? I love JB though and definitely V'Lane so what does that make me?

[MeShelle]

So much information.... i think it will take me a couple of hours to process or for my brain to melt... Wow Jo you went in real deep with this.

[Gryphons Bard]

I'm just clueless to JB, but with that accent he can be anything he wants, I'll take it. :drool-vi: I wouldn't be surprised if that old lady (at the bar) was his mum.

[Carliv]

Hi all, I am only in the middle of the first book (I just bought it yesterday - I'm sorry to say speedy access to American Romance isn't that easy over here), but I decided to add my two cents worth :happy_face_waving:

I noticed that none of you mentioned Darroc... We know that he was stripped of his Fae status in The Immortal Highlander. And Karen says in her FAQ that he will be in this series......and that we should shout out if we see him..

This means that a) he's now (more-or-less) human and b) doesn't appear as his obvious self. I got it stuck in my head that JB is a possibility. He'd obviously know all about the Fae world's ins and outs, his arrogance wasn't stripped with his immortality (which also means he doesn't get frightened by things/people from the dark realm) and he would want the book to do ...what..? Go home? Be Tuatha De Danaan again? Revenge? All of the above?

I don't know, I may be fully of the mark here, but it interests me... Too bad I don't know how to get my hands on that booklet you are talking about :33:

Later,
Carli

[Debbie_D]

Welcome Carliv! Most of us believe that the Lord Master is Darroc. When you read the descriptions of both, it seems obvious (but with Karen, the obvious isn't always right :33:)
Keep reading and post more of your ideas. We love speculating....

[Cheryle]

Hi all, I am only in the middle of the first book (I just bought it yesterday - I'm sorry to say speedy access to American Romance isn't that easy over here), but I decided to add my two cents worth :happy_face_waving:

I noticed that none of you mentioned Darroc... We know that he was stripped of his Fae status in The Immortal Highlander. And Karen says in her FAQ that he will be in this series......and that we should shout out if we see him..

This means that a) he's now (more-or-less) human and b) doesn't appear as his obvious self. I got it stuck in my head that JB is a possibility. He'd obviously know all about the Fae world's ins and outs, his arrogance wasn't stripped with his immortality (which also means he doesn't get frightened by things/people from the dark realm) and he would want the book to do ...what..? Go home? Be Tuatha De Danaan again? Revenge? All of the above?

I don't know, I may be fully of the mark here, but it interests me... Too bad I don't know how to get my hands on that booklet you are talking about :33:

Later,
Carli

Hello and Welcome, I am with Debbie D the majority of us believe the Lord Master is Darroc, the description is just soooo similar to him. Anyhow, welcome again and we look forward to getting to know you better.

[claudia celestial girl]

I'm sorry to say speedy access to American Romance isn't that easy over here)

Hi Carliv! I go to the Netherlands a lot on business. Maybe I can be a courier and drag a few books overseas for you - like BF? However since my next trip to The Netherlands isn't until November, maybe it would be faster to do your normal thing. PM me, and let me know if you'd like me to bring you some books.

Oh yeah - I'm one of those that believes that the Lord Master is Darroc. But that would be sort of a spoiler if you're only part way through DF. Once you finish the book, you can tell us if we are wrong. ;-)

Oh yeah - here's another question. There are some out there that believe the Lord Master did NOT kill Alina (including JB), and that the Lord Master can be redeemed. You can tell us what you think about those theories as well, once you finish the book.

[Carliv]

Hi Claudia,(and Cheryle, and Debbie and all the rest!)

First of all, thanks for welcoming me. That is always the best start of visiting a new forum and my feeling is this is an open, friendly place.

I forgot my book at work (where I am now) yesterday, so I'll try and finish it tonight. I am sure you are absolutely right, but hey, that's what I get for opening my mouth before I am ready...:65:

I will surely come back later to answer your question :)

Also, I'll PM you, who knows if we can work something out! I'm looking forward to hearing about your visits here, I work for a big international company in Amsterdam so we get lot's of Foreigners here daily as well.

Later!

[Cheryle]

Hi Claudia,(and Cheryle, and Debbie and all the rest!)

First of all, thanks for welcoming me. That is always the best start of visiting a new forum and my feeling is this is an open, friendly place.

I forgot my book at work (where I am now) yesterday, so I'll try and finish it tonight. I am sure you are absolutely right, but hey, that's what I get for opening my mouth before I am ready...:65:

I will surely come back later to answer your question :)

Also, I'll PM you, who knows if we can work something out! I'm looking forward to hearing about your visits here, I work for a big international company in Amsterdam so we get lot's of Foreigners here daily as well.

Later!


Enjoy the book I am excited to see what theories you come up with. I love the ladies here with all their fun ideas and can't wait to see if any of us are right. It is fun to speculate!

[Mercuralis]

Has anyone considered whether or not JB could be half fae?

I really don't think he's a vampire. Gut instinct tells me no on that one, and I don't really want him to be, either. BUT I do think he's immortal (or fairly close to it).

Reasons why I don't think he's entirely fae:
Mac's powers are pretty strong, and he'd have to be an extremely powerful fae for her to not see through a human glamour day in and day out and under extreme duress.
She can touch him without Nulling him. (although that could be another point for him being too powerful of a fae for it to last more than an eyeblink in fae time)
He's a total bully. :D Most of the fae seem to spend their time either just taking what they want, or seducing you to get it. Jericho does things in a more indimating, human fashion.

Reasons why I think he's at least *part* fae:
Supernatural speed, strength, jumping ability
The Shades ignore him (or fear him?)
He knows an awful lot about the Dark Hallows, and the fae in general (most of the Druids were still really ignorant on most of those topics)
He has a healthy aversion to the spear. When he touches it, it's indirectly (through Mac's purse) and will not touch it directly. He doesn't seem the sort to care if it's a Christian relic or not, so something else makes him refuse to touch it.
For all his abilities, he can't sense the Hallows.
He's not afraid of Malluce. Can you drink Fae blood? What would the Fae do to you if you tried?
The torque: Karen's favorite sign of fae royalty.

What I think is that JB is maybe part Dark Fae. Hence the reasons why he prefers the dark and is such a very bad boy. I think he can go out during the daylight, but prefers not to. I think that's why the shades either fear or respect him, and why he knows V'lane and so much about the other kinds of Unseelie. However he does have some good streaks: he wants the bad elements out of his city, he does protect Mac, and I think the lights are to protect both his stronghold and Fiona.

The scene with Fiona that Mac overhears replays a lot for me. There's something in it that suggests that he needs her for some purpose (but I don't think it's blood... I think she'd look different, if it were blood). And it kind of cross references with something he says in one of the teasers.

He tells Mac he'll "never be like V'lane" who we know feeds off sex. In the scene with Fio, it's almost like what Mac *doesn't* see, is JB revealing what he really is. Even the "pained feminine gasp" bit... we know that in their full fae forms they're almost too beautiful to look at...which could conceivably cause her to gasp. It's the only thing I can think of that makes her reaction make sense. Her adoration of him, her love for him and devotion could mean that he does feed off some of those things and keeps her around for that purpose. Even if he doesn't really reciprocate those feelings. Fio also implies that Mac is in danger from JB, which would also fit.

He also says he's "not like any other player" in the game... which means he's probably not a vampire or full fledged fae...

I kinda think it'd be dangerously delicious to find out he's the son of the Dark King. That could just be wishful thinking, though.

Or what if he was actually the son of the Unseelie King and the Faery Queen. Farfetched yes... but... what would the result of two conflicting powers be?

[Danielle42]

Unfortunately I am pretty sure that the Lord Master did kill Alina. Mac is the one who ID'd the body, and while it was pretty torn up (by Hunters, I think), I have no doubt that Mac would have known if it wasn't her

Sad but I think true.:crying-vi:

[MeShelle]

I dont think that the lord master killed alina because he was using her to find the relics.... He might of killed her afterwards but he wasnt done finding all of them so no i think the lord master didnt kill alina

[miss lulu]

Has anyone considered whether or not JB could be half fae?

I really don't think he's a vampire. Gut instinct tells me no on that one, and I don't really want him to be, either. BUT I do think he's immortal (or fairly close to it).

Reasons why I don't think he's entirely fae:
Mac's powers are pretty strong, and he'd have to be an extremely powerful fae for her to not see through a human glamour day in and day out and under extreme duress.
She can touch him without Nulling him. (although that could be another point for him being too powerful of a fae for it to last more than an eyeblink in fae time)
He's a total bully. :D Most of the fae seem to spend their time either just taking what they want, or seducing you to get it. Jericho does things in a more indimating, human fashion.

Reasons why I think he's at least *part* fae:
Supernatural speed, strength, jumping ability
The Shades ignore him (or fear him?)
He knows an awful lot about the Dark Hallows, and the fae in general (most of the Druids were still really ignorant on most of those topics)
He has a healthy aversion to the spear. When he touches it, it's indirectly (through Mac's purse) and will not touch it directly. He doesn't seem the sort to care if it's a Christian relic or not, so something else makes him refuse to touch it.
For all his abilities, he can't sense the Hallows.
He's not afraid of Malluce. Can you drink Fae blood? What would the Fae do to you if you tried?
The torque: Karen's favorite sign of fae royalty.

What I think is that JB is maybe part Dark Fae. Hence the reasons why he prefers the dark and is such a very bad boy. I think he can go out during the daylight, but prefers not to. I think that's why the shades either fear or respect him, and why he knows V'lane and so much about the other kinds of Unseelie. However he does have some good streaks: he wants the bad elements out of his city, he does protect Mac, and I think the lights are to protect both his stronghold and Fiona.

The scene with Fiona that Mac overhears replays a lot for me. There's something in it that suggests that he needs her for some purpose (but I don't think it's blood... I think she'd look different, if it were blood). And it kind of cross references with something he says in one of the teasers.

He tells Mac he'll "never be like V'lane" who we know feeds off sex. In the scene with Fio, it's almost like what Mac *doesn't* see, is JB revealing what he really is. Even the "pained feminine gasp" bit... we know that in their full fae forms they're almost too beautiful to look at...which could conceivably cause her to gasp. It's the only thing I can think of that makes her reaction make sense. Her adoration of him, her love for him and devotion could mean that he does feed off some of those things and keeps her around for that purpose. Even if he doesn't really reciprocate those feelings. Fio also implies that Mac is in danger from JB, which would also fit.

He also says he's "not like any other player" in the game... which means he's probably not a vampire or full fledged fae...

I kinda think it'd be dangerously delicious to find out he's the son of the Dark King. That could just be wishful thinking, though.

Or what if he was actually the son of the Unseelie King and the Faery Queen. Farfetched yes... but... what would the result of two conflicting powers be?


:happy0158:Love how you back up everything! Most of the things you wrote make total sense.

I'm also wishing that JB is a unseelie/seelie royal, mainly of the Dark King. But I also wrote on the thread, Where is the unseelie King? , under Into the Dreaming that maybe (I can be crazy at times) JB is the Unseelie King.

Once I get all my thoughts in order, like you, I'll post up what I really think is going on.

[claudia celestial girl]

:happy0158:Love how you back up everything! Most of the things you wrote make total sense.

I'm also wishing that JB is a unseelie/seelie royal, mainly of the Dark King. But I also wrote on the thread, Where is the unseelie King? , under Into the Dreaming that maybe (I can be crazy at times) JB is the Unseelie King.

Once I get all my thoughts in order, like you, I'll post up what I really think is going on.

what if he was actually the son of the Unseelie King and the Faery Queen


This theory has *Jo* written all over it! *Jo* has been saying that for a long time. She has a long theory about why the torgue means royalty. We've been going back and forth with *Jo* over this on quite a few threads.

I am not one who believes that JZB is Fae, whole or part. But I have to say this, that JZB is turning out to be the great mysetry of this series. It is really fun to speculate about what he is. I've never really considered if he was an Unseelie Prince before (and I'm going to turn that over in my brain for the next few days). I've been going back and forth on whether JZB is intrinsically good or evil. He sure is manipulative. But that doesn't translate into evil. And he seems to be fighting some sort of curse, not embracing it in its entirety (or is he?). Let's just say I agree with everything you said about his good qualities, but the whole picture hasn't been painted yet.

[Mercuralis]

The more I think about it, the more I keep coming back to that phrase: "never be like V'lane"

Doesn't that kind of imply that he COULD be, if he wanted to be? That he's consciously choosing not to be? And that in order for him to be like V'lane they'd need to have certain things in common, like the ability to feed off sex??

He doesn't compare himself to Malluce, which again makes me think "Not a vampire". He compares himself to V'lane...

I still think he's fae of some sort. I'm betting on royalty. What kind? And why is he more human than most...? I don't know, but I can't wait to find out.

:D

[claudia celestial girl]

don't forget that Fiona implied that he was something mythical. which would suggest neither Fae nor human.

(though I love the idea of him being Fae royalty making a choice not to be 'like V'Lane'. I am sooo going to turn that over in my head for the next few days.)

[*Jo*]

This theory has *Jo* written all over it! *Jo* has been saying that for a long time. She has a long theory about why the torgue means royalty. We've been going back and forth with *Jo* over this on quite a few threads.

I am not one who believes that JZB is Fae, whole or part. But I have to say this, that JZB is turning out to be the great mysetry of this series. It is really fun to speculate about what he is. I've never really considered if he was an Unseelie Prince before (and I'm going to turn that over in my brain for the next few days). I've been going back and forth on whether JZB is intrinsically good or evil. He sure is manipulative. But that doesn't translate into evil. And he seems to be fighting some sort of curse, not embracing it in its entirety (or is he?). Let's just say I agree with everything you said about his good qualities, but the whole picture hasn't been painted yet.
:anim_headbang-vi:
Thanks Claudia for the plug...Indeed for quite a while I have been posting my 'read in between the line theories'. Here's a few to remember me by. ESPECIALLY the NEW one :

I believe that JB is an unseelie fae because he tells Mac, " ...you can't tell the difference between seelie & unseelie fae of the royal house" and because of the color torque & cuff JB has worn. So far, JB is the only royal that the adornments have been made of silver...All others relating to the seelie fae have been of yellow golden nature whether worn by druids or fae alike.

ADDING another piece JZB, JERICHO ZAVIER (???,meaning 'new house' of fae my guess) BARRONS, mends Mac's broken bones in her arm after the attack from Malluce. Mac clearly remembers Jericho speaking in an unrecognizable language, feels his kiss, then falls into a deep slumber...Who else would know the ancient tongue other than a fae ? Also there have been numerous references to the fact that JZB apeears to sift time all through DARKfever...Druids don't sift...Or appear out of nowhere without a sound !

[miss lulu]

Right on Jo


and JB also gives Mac the around about when she asked him if he was human or fae. He never gave her a staight answer. This was in the lastest treaser from KMM.

also in DF (I don't know where) JB tells Mac "your planet/world" if he was even human he would have said our planet/world, but he doesn't! So this being said, him implies that he is not of human race. So the part in were Jo and others think he maybe half human/ half fae, does not fit right with this.


on the other hand it does support that he maybe of fae blood. Hopefully royal due to the torque.

[MeShelle]

I dont know what he is because i change my mind every day on what he REALLY is so i gave up on that but miss lulu your right he does say your world and im possitive he is not human

[*Jo*]

Right on Jo


and JB also gives Mac the around about when she asked him if he was human or fae. He never gave her a staight answer. This was in the lastest treaser from KMM.

also in DF (I don't know where) JB tells Mac "your planet/world" if he was even human he would have said our planet/world, but he doesn't! So this being said, him implies that he is not of human race. So the part in were Jo and others think he maybe half human/ half fae, does not fit right with this.


on the other hand it does support that he maybe of fae blood. Hopefully royal due to the torque.

INTO THE DREAMING...there is reference to the Unseelie King as being of a race not yet named, HE himself has not been named, and the fae supposedly come from another planet thousands & thousands beyond our human one.

The fae colonized on the planet and cohabited the earth too with the humans who became too jealous of their immortalilty hence the DRAGHAR (druids practicing the magyck dark arts).
DARK HIGHLANDER has this evidence clearly spoken in the characters of the 13 druids who had possessed Dageus, waiting to re enter this world to overtake the human world & unseat Queen 'A' or destroy her...

I concluded JZB was full fae, UNSEELIE son of Queen 'A' & Unseelie king, existing all his 'life' so far in UNSEELIE domain for whatever reason...
JB is the ONLY character to this point in KMM writing that has worn adornments of silver, silver & black cuffs & torque = UNSEELIE court ! TO me...
I also believe JZB is cursed or damned by magyck VILKACIS, warrior, sorcerer practicing magyck, full blood royal fae of the UNSEELIE court.
I would not be surprised as others have stated, JB's the KEEPER of the GATES, the division of fae/mortal world (at one time)...
Ireland supposedly is where the GATES of HELL are...Halloween being the day where the gates fly open to allow demons & devils to roam the earth for souls..
JZB BD was listed as Halloween on his driver's license.
IS that when HE escaped his UNSEELIE prison of his father & never returned ? AKA (JB) his BIRTHDAY ? There is much to ponder.
JB has also a middle initial of Z. I conclude his middle name is ZAVIER...This means 'new house' . New house of FAE...YUP ! That would fit JZB to a 'T' !
THE END for now...

[*Jo*]

Sorry too...
THAT was as short as I could get.


MISS LULU & MERCURALIS
THANKS... for the chance to debate my theories...:happy0158:

Because we ALL know TMI is well just...TMI

[Vixn2tame]

Okay.. guess it's time to say hello. I've been a lurker here for a year or so. I won't say "slap me now", because I may like it. I will, however, say that i'm impressed with the relationships and intelligence that is here. :) Hopefully i'll add to it, and it's nice to meet you guys.

What I don't think has been mentioned is that in Spell, Aoibheal notes that she has placed the FIVE most powerful Druids that ever lived where she wanted them, and where they could ally her.

She spells out the three Keltars. We know we'll meet another Keltar in the books to follow, which leave one more. Barrons?

[oracle]

Thanks for coming out of the woodwork Vixn! As a former lurker myself, I totally understand! We did talk about Aoibheal's Druids in one of the JB threads which I can't find but there is a faction that believed JB is a Druid and one of the 5 nonetheless...I am part of that faction...

[*Jo*]

Okay.. guess it's time to say hello. I've been a lurker here for a year or so. I won't say "slap me now", because I may like it. I will, however, say that i'm impressed with the relationships and intelligence that is here. :) Hopefully i'll add to it, and it's nice to meet you guys.

What I don't think has been mentioned is that in Spell, Aoibheal notes that she has placed the FIVE most powerful Druids that ever lived where she wanted them, and where they could ally her.

She spells out the three Keltars. We know we'll meet another Keltar in the books to follow, which leave one more. Barrons?

:welcome: I am so very glad that you decided to join us & I know that you will enjoy every minute !
Excuse me for ONE moment please...:happy0194: I think I'm in love with you already !
I have a feeling that you will be "slapping yourself in the face" because you waited SSssssssooo long to be part of a wonderful, sincere, & supportive group of the most intelligent you'll ever meet ! :03:

There was a discussion about 5 druids. Thediscussion was in the BLOODFEVER section of listed books of the forum, PAGE #2/Druids.
So far some of us agree that we have met maybe 4 of them. 3 were definites.
Drustan MacKeltar
Dageus MacKeltar
Cian MacKeltar
Aidan MacKinnon (Into the Dreaming/popular but not definite) or
JerichoZBarrons (DF/popular but not a definite)

You would enhance the discussion in the DF section if you were to check the threads & post...
That's if you like !

Have fun & post often. :happy_face_waving:

[*Jo*]

Thanks for coming out of the woodwork Vixn! As a former lurker myself, I totally understand! We did talk about Aoibheal's Druids in one of the JB threads which I can't find but there is a faction that believed JB is a Druid and one of the 5 nonetheless...I am part of that faction...

BLOODFEVER book section/page#2/5 Druids is where that discussion ended up!

[krstis]

:happy_face_waving: Hi Vixn! I too lurked quite a while....Glad to hear from you.
So now we have 3 definite Druids, the MacKeltar twins in Scotland and Cian touring Ireland (isn't he? says at the end of Spell) The other 2 COULD be Aidan or JB. I don't think Aidan is one bcs he'd almost have to be moved around in time, plus he wasn't one in the book-he was Vengeance.
In my mind it's a strong possibilty that JB is a Druid. but I really think he is something else that hasn't been named yet. I've put out there that he's like Druid/Rom/Sorcerer mix, but I've also toyed with the idea he's a present (or past?) Vengeance. Since the Unseelie King is barred from the human realm, could he have sent his Vengeance to find the Sinsar Dubh & other relics?
Whaddya all think--shoot me down now!!

[*Jo*]

:happy_face_waving: Hi Vixn! I too lurked quite a while....Glad to hear from you.
So now we have 3 definite Druids, the MacKeltar twins in Scotland and Cian touring Ireland (isn't he? says at the end of Spell) The other 2 COULD be Aidan or JB. I don't think Aidan is one bcs he'd almost have to be moved around in time, plus he wasn't one in the book-he was Vengeance.
In my mind it's a strong possibilty that JB is a Druid. but I really think he is something else that hasn't been named yet. I've put out there that he's like Druid/Rom/Sorcerer mix, but I've also toyed with the idea he's a present (or past?) Vengeance. Since the Unseelie King is barred from the human realm, could he have sent his Vengeance to find the Sinsar Dubh & other relics?
Whaddya all think--shoot me down now!!

Wouldn't shoot you down...
Remember that there was a thread somewhere that had similar theories on the Rom/Hawk/Circenn/Vengeance...Maybe in the book forums. Check into those sections. I have to go back myself and reread...:65:

[Vixn2tame]

Hm. Must have missed that one. Thought i read most, if not all of the DF or BF ones. I'm not one for redressing old news.

I don't think I'd toss Aiden into the Fantastic Five. He wouldn't have been a 'favorite' of Aoibheal's. Which still leaves one unaccounted for. :X

[Mercuralis]

Rereading Darkfever...

anyone else notice how KM always describes Faery skin as being gold/gold velvet.

Gabrielle goes on quite a bit about it in IH, but even Mac notices it the first time she sees the Unseelie in the bar... and later, she notes that JB's skin is "golden."

Coincidence?

[stormsandsins]

Rereading Darkfever...

anyone else notice how KM always describes Faery skin as being gold/gold velvet.

Gabrielle goes on quite a bit about it in IH, but even Mac notices it the first time she sees the Unseelie in the bar... and later, she notes that JB's skin is "golden."

Coincidence?

Probably not!

[*Jo*]

Rereading Darkfever...

anyone else notice how KM always describes Faery skin as being gold/gold velvet.

Gabrielle goes on quite a bit about it in IH, but even Mac notices it the first time she sees the Unseelie in the bar... and later, she notes that JB's skin is "golden."

Coincidence?


Coincidence, no I don't think so...
I also picked up on the discription, too! So far, all of Karen's FAE have that color skin.:happy0158: Fae = golden skin tone.
Also noticed that the male Seelie fae, Tuatha De Danann, Children of Danu also carry the scent of sandlewood...

[claudia celestial girl]

I have to say - I'm neither agreeeing nor disagreeing on the golden skin tie-in with Fae thing - but almost every single romance novelist, whether they write about Highlanders or not, seem to write that their character has golden skin. I swear I've never read so many books where the characters have golden skin. It is cliche. It's like, if the man has pale skin, or skin tones in the blue-ish/pinkish cast, that he is not sexy.

Now, I don't know. It could be significant - that the skin tone equates with Fae. But didn't Dageus & Drustan & Cian all have golden skin? I think it's just a way to describe the look of an outdoorsy Highlander with a certain pedigree - one that includes Celt or Basque & Pict. Look at Rafal Nadal. He has that heritage, and I'd certainly say his skin was golden from what I could see of it at the U.S. Open. ;-) (OMG!)

[Cheryle]

I have to say - I'm neither agreeeing nor disagreeing on the golden skin tie-in with Fae thing - but almost every single romance novelist, whether they write about Highlanders or not, seem to write that their character has golden skin. I swear I've never read so many books where the characters have golden skin. It is cliche. It's like, if the man has pale skin, or skin tones in the blue-ish/pinkish cast, that he is not sexy.


I agree with you there, every male character I have read has a great tan, yummy golden skin.

[Danielle42]

So, ladies: I've been re-reading the threads and really enjoying all the interesting theories and back-and-forth discussion we've been having 'bout our man for sometime now. It's a bit hard to follow, however, 'cause it's taken place over several different threads. Soooo....

Let's all write in and give a summary 'bout what we think, 'bout our latest theories and conclusions regarding our dear mysterious JZB.

Here it goes for me:

1) Old but not ancient (not the way Adam or Aiobheal are ancient)

2) Druid - very powerful, from some ancient lineage, perhaps; not Fae.

3) Not a sidhe-seer. Cian was able to see Queen Aiobheal in Spell even when she was deliberately trying to remain hidden. (Even she was surprised by that).

4) Cursed - perhaps related to his arrogance regarding some powers (like Cian)

The more I think about it the more I compare him to Cian (perhaps b/c Spell was one of my favorite KMM books prior to DF :03: )

5) Lycanthrope/werewolf or some other kind of changling (perhaps/probably related to #3)

6) One of the voices we hear in the vault

7) One of the good guys - not a clean-cut as some of our earlier KMM heros (Drustan or Circeen) and perhaps thinking more about his hide/his own needs/(his past hurts?) at the moment - but ultimately someone who will come through in the end.

8) Totally hot for Mac (we know that of course, but I am DYING to find out how/when that relationship is consummated!)

9) Beautiful - oh, that's not a theory, that's a FACT :03:

I don't recall all of the name-related theories that Jo and others discussed but I remember agreeing with some of them...

Others?

[claudia celestial girl]

I think this list captures just about everything for me! I might tweak a couple of things:

#1 I don't know what it is about JZB that suggests Ancient with a capital "A" for me. Maybe it is his accent, which is described the same way that Adam's accent is described, meaning some combination of ancient Gaelic - I dunno - like a couple thousand years old. In that range. He might be the Ancient Druid that Queen Abby mentions at the end of Spell? And if Queen Abby calls him ancient, that begs the question of how many thousands are we talking about?
#5 - whereas I am an advocate of JZB being wolf-like in his were-ness, I'm thinking that it is an unconventional wolf/man thing. More like a goblin/beast than a lycanthrope. I wouldn't be surprised if it was associated with a sea-creature type thing. He has some beast-thing going on, though, for sure
#10 - Someone suggested 'moon-warrior' and I sign up for that. Not that he is governed by the cycles of the moon like a conventional werewolf of the horror-flick variety. But there was something in that name write-up that resonnated with me. If I figure it out, I'll edit this post.

[claudia celestial girl]

PS - I think I'm going to start calling JZB "His Were-ness" from now on! *smirk*. He does have that royal arrogant-ness going on too. But that could just be from #7 on your list - being into his own needs/hurts.

BTW - I like your comparison of him and Cian. :33:

[jeant]

I'm re-reading DF and Mac says JB is a seer. Is she speculating or does she mean he is?

[R. FLOWERS]

I agree. I did not like Mac's whining and persona. She really did come off as the American Barbie Brat. There were some pages I wanted to give her the Cher Moonstruck "snap out of it" slap. So far, I like her the least of all the female herione's in the KMM books. As she finally started to believe what is going her character did shape up a little. I hope in the next installment
she grows up . Also were is the ROMANCE ???????

[Cheryle]

I agree. I did not like Mac's whining and persona. She really did come off as the American Barbie Brat. There were some pages I wanted to give her the Cher Moonstruck "snap out of it" slap. So far, I like her the least of all the female herione's in the KMM books. As she finally started to believe what is going her character did shape up a little. I hope in the next installment
she grows up . Also were is the ROMANCE ???????

LMAO on the Cher Moonstruck Slap. Love it. As far as the romance is concerned you may want to read Karen's FAQ section on her website. Darkfever is not a romance but there will be romance as the series continues.

All in all I have to say I applaude KMM for doing something different and spicing things up a little.


Also If I have not said welcome yet R. Flowers. Welcome to our little family glad you came aboard!!!!!

[Desire]

So, ladies: I've been re-reading the threads and really enjoying all the interesting theories and back-and-forth discussion we've been having 'bout our man for sometime now. It's a bit hard to follow, however, 'cause it's taken place over several different threads. Soooo....

Let's all write in and give a summary 'bout what we think, 'bout our latest theories and conclusions regarding our dear mysterious JZB.

Here it goes for me:

1) Old but not ancient (not the way Adam or Aiobheal are ancient)

2) Druid - very powerful, from some ancient lineage, perhaps; not Fae.

3) Not a sidhe-seer. Cian was able to see Queen Aiobheal in Spell even when she was deliberately trying to remain hidden. (Even she was surprised by that).

4) Cursed - perhaps related to his arrogance regarding some powers (like Cian)

The more I think about it the more I compare him to Cian (perhaps b/c Spell was one of my favorite KMM books prior to DF :03: )

5) Lycanthrope/werewolf or some other kind of changling (perhaps/probably related to #3)

6) One of the voices we hear in the vault

7) One of the good guys - not a clean-cut as some of our earlier KMM heros (Drustan or Circeen) and perhaps thinking more about his hide/his own needs/(his past hurts?) at the moment - but ultimately someone who will come through in the end.

8) Totally hot for Mac (we know that of course, but I am DYING to find out how/when that relationship is consummated!)

9) Beautiful - oh, that's not a theory, that's a FACT :03:

I don't recall all of the name-related theories that Jo and others discussed but I remember agreeing with some of them...

Others?

WOW!! Girl - what a thought process. :2v-vi:

I totally agree with everything you've said. Just to add my thought about JB being hot for Mac. I think that Mac is going to give him a run for his money once she starts coming into the woman this new life has thrust her into.

Again, WOW! You go girl.:happy0158:

[*Jo*]

I agree with almost ALL of your theories posted except the following with a brief description of why:

2.) JZB, JZAVIERB that's what I think his middle name to be and it means "New House" of fae . Formorian fae are closely linked and almost hard to separate because of the inter-breeding with the Tuatha De Dannan. They actually pre-date the CHILDREN OF DANU in Ireland. JZB DOES wear a torque & cuff such as Adam & V'lane who are Seelie, Tuatha De Dannan Fae. However, Adam, Cian, V'Lane have worn yellow gold adornments where JZB wears those made of silver leading me to believe he is a fae of a totally different group altogether. Perhaps that will not be revealed of his character until FAEFEVER for obvious reasons. Formorian fae reside underground and we know how JZB knows his way around the sewers and his comment of having spent alot of time there when he & Mac LIFTED the SPEAR of Christ or Lupin...:th_read:
On the outside of the theory, JZB could be a Formorian fae educated druid-sorcerer which was paramount in the structure of fae cities. SEE the posting in DARKFEVER, my posting, "Is Tir fo Thuinn the birth city of JZB ?"

5.) 'Werewolf Thing' :51:I deduce is Vilkacis. Baltic/Latvian folklore suggests that this type of warrior can only be cursed by magic and the folklore clusters them with shape sifters & berserkers, and Karie Marie has already introduced berserker, Grimm in To Tame A Highland Warrior. Therefore, not repeating similar storlines as druids or sorcerers that were druids, 1/2 fae & 1/2 human, or straight up druids, cursed druids or even cursed Seelie Fae-Tuatha De Dannan-Royalty. It would be a complete fresh storyline with overlaping similarities BUT no repeats whatsoever.

8.) This is very hard to say because Karen Marie in this series writes only in the first person, aka MacKayla. If it were written in the first person JZB, we would know exactly for certain what THAT MAN THINKS (Pick ME! PICK ME ! PLEASE).
Anyhoo, Mac is not a mind reader to this date, but in future books that may or may not be part of her character development.:th_type:
We shall have to wait & see...

SORRY, now I shall get off my :anim_soapbox-vi:

[Bella...]

MY NEW THEORY... I am begining to hear this little ditty in my brain that says; {and you all know the voice I mean} "You are about to enter the TWILIGHT ZONE" :D

pss... I just can't wait to see what our Powerful / Mysterious / Cursed? / and Totally Beautiful Royal Arrogant-Hot-Self Mr. JZB turns out to be!!!

psss... I love all the theories going around!!

[Bella...]

Welcome R. Flowers !! :happy_face_waving: I hope you join in often ! I must have missed you too over at the Tea Room.

[*Jo*]

Welcome R. Flowers !! :happy_face_waving: I hope you join in often ! I must have missed you too over at the Tea Room.

I'd like to welcome you too, R.Flowers...I have shame on my face because I missed your post. Sorry !:happy_face_waving:

[desertwolf]

I've been reading the posts and finding them interesting. Since I don't have a booklet I gather that Jerricho has been pegged to be Mac's love interest, is that true?

Too bad, he bugs me.

I think I'm the only one here that doesn't like the boy. For a whatever he is (I'm leaning towards Robot :happy0158:) he's got an enormous stick crammed up his butt. He is rude, he is cold, he is manipulative and conniving, even worse unfeeling. He didn't even care that Mac had lost her sister - what kind of a hero is that? JB could have at least let the news register in his head. Then he's jerking Fiona around. And his looks - he sounds like a sixties lounge lizard - I bet he wears a gold medallion under his shirt. Sure he was useful toward the end of DF but he stood to lose if anything happened to Mac.

By the way, I happen to like Mac. :anim_headbang-vi:Sure she likes pink, she likes to look good and knows when she does, but she was also good with her cash, confident, brave (french fry incident) and smarter than she's been given credit. This was somebody with experience reading people and handling herself. I have to give her credit for going to Ireland by herself when nobody else was supporting her. By the end of DF she was doing good. I think she'll kick a*& as a sidhe-seer.

Too bad she can't kick JB to the curb.

[*Jo*]

I've been reading the posts and finding them interesting. Since I don't have a booklet I gather that Jerricho has been pegged to be Mac's love interest, is that true?

Too bad, he bugs me.

I think I'm the only one here that doesn't like the boy. For a whatever he is (I'm leaning towards Robot :happy0158:) he's got an enormous stick crammed up his butt. He is rude, he is cold, he is manipulative and conniving, even worse unfeeling. He didn't even care that Mac had lost her sister - what kind of a hero is that? JB could have at least let the news register in his head. Then he's jerking Fiona around. And his looks - he sounds like a sixties lounge lizard - I bet he wears a gold medallion under his shirt. Sure he was useful toward the end of DF but he stood to lose if anything happened to Mac.

By the way, I happen to like Mac. :anim_headbang-vi:Sure she likes pink, she likes to look good and knows when she does, but she was also good with her cash, confident, brave (french fry incident) and smarter than she's been given credit. This was somebody with experience reading people and handling herself. I have to give her credit for going to Ireland by herself when nobody else was supporting her. By the end of DF she was doing good. I think she'll kick a*& as a sidhe-seer.

Too bad she can't kick JB to the curb.

This is funny to me anyway...
I have a totally reverse opinion myself.

JZB has definitely grown on me & now I actually like him very much because I don't think right now he too thrilled with Mac. I LIKE THAT Jericho sees Mac for exactly what she is...
BBBbbbbooo! HHHhiiiisss! I can HEAR THAT LADIES !!!
Mac on the otherhand, I DO ADMIT, I'm still not that thrilled with her at all. Really have no sympathy for her STILL however have oodles for her sister Alina...

Maybe she'll grow on me, like moss...
So throw the rotton cabbage if you'd like...At ME EVEN !
Maybe I change my mind about Mac in BF...

[claudia celestial girl]

#1 I don't know what it is about JZB that suggests Ancient with a capital "A" for me. Maybe it is his accent, which is described the same way that Adam's accent is described, meaning some combination of ancient Gaelic - I dunno - like a couple thousand years old. In that range. He might be the Ancient Druid that Queen Abby mentions at the end of Spell? And if Queen Abby calls him ancient, that begs the question of how many thousands are we talking about?

I"m still working on that ancient thing. (Remember that old TV show - secret agent man - well - I've got Secretive Ancient Man on my brain). *smiles*

Here's the start of a list of quotes that make me think JZB is ancient. I've said 1-2 thousand years, minimum. I'm thinking more like 4-6.




At least her sojourn in hell will be brief."

"That's supposed to be a comfort?" I cried. "That it will be brief?"

"You underestimate the pricelessness of brevity, Ms. Lane." His eyes were ice, his smile colder.
Have you noticed that whenever he is talking about himself (& the curse), his eyes get very cold, and his smile more inhuman?

'Undead ****" (referring to Malluce, of course) - he said 'Undead' as if he secretly wished Malluce to be dead, not that he believed him to be undead.

"Do you have a death-wish, Human?"
"Might. Doubt you'll be the one to help me with it, though."

***spoiler***
"You might reconsider that one day... That nothing is worth more than your life, Ms. Lane. Some things are. Don't put too high a premium on it. You may live to regret it."


Anyway, there is something just agonizing about the things that JZB says. An agony that is more than a few hundred years of duration. Circeen never expressed agony about timelessness like JZB seems to.

[claudia celestial girl]

This is funny to me anyway...
I have a totally reverse opinion myself.

JZB has definitely grown on me & now I actually like him very much because I don't think right now he too thrilled with Mac. I LIKE THAT Jericho sees Mac for exactly what she is...
BBBbbbbooo! HHHhiiiisss! I can HEAR THAT LADIES !!!
Mac on the otherhand, I DO ADMIT, I'm still not that thrilled with her at all. Really have no sympathy for her STILL however have oodles for her sister Alina...

Maybe she'll grow on me, like moss...
So throw the rotton cabbage if you'd like...At ME EVEN !
Maybe I change my mind about Mac in BF...
ha! I guess I have a tangential opinion (as usual).

I'm like you, Jo. I'm not very fond of Mac, though terribly impressed with Alina.

What I like the most about this Fever series is that we get to see a relationship develop between characters, that we don't just have h & h fall in love by page 10, then spend the rest of the book going through contrived situations that prevent them from really getting together.

Both h & h have 'issues' and will have to grow and change before the end of the series. I think it is clear that JZB is the 'hero', and that he'll prove it by the time the series comes to an end, but the joy of it is that he's going to sort of grow into being the hero. He's going to start out being someone you might not like terribly much, and as someone else said, we're probably going to love to HATE him before we really get to love him for good. ;-)

To me, that's a good book. and no, I won't be throwin' rotten cabbage! You Rock!

[Bella...]

:crying-vi: "sixties lounge lizard" ... Desertwolf , you just broke ME heart! lol...
I think Jericho is now AND going to be the Rogue for awhile longer. But... I do believe JZB will become the Hero of the story, along with Mac of course. I want him to be the NICE GUY in the end... :2v-vi:.. I think Karen will give us our Happy Ending at the end of this series... I just Know it :happy0158:

pss...*Jo* I still 'wuv' Ye and I want throw the rotten cabbage at Ye!! :happy0194:

[Vivid Confusion]

So, I just got the book this weekend and have read it twice already. I admit that this is the first KMM book I've read so I am unfamiliar with how close to Celtic mythology she has followed.. But. Having gone through the threads and really fallen for the book, I just had to toss in my own thoughts here.

Has anyone considered that JB might be at least part Selkie? (more on that in a moment)

I agree with the thing about him being old--as in ancient. There is a lot to support that, starting off with just the fact that he lists two essentially wiped out peoples as his ethnicity. The Picts were absorbed into the Scots, Welsh, and Anglo-Saxons way back around Roman Britannia times. Add that into all the other comments and references that have been mentioned, and well...he is old. And Selkies are sometimes portrayed as immortal.

What I really think is that the cuff and torque are his curse and his protection at the same time. Remember when Mac is asking V'lane about the "Catch" with the golden cuff he tries to get her to take? I think JB is someone that took a cuff--perhaps from the Queen since silver is related to the feminine in Celtic mythology as well as the moon and water (more Selkie points there)--and has since been trapped in some sense with more than he bargained for.

It would also explain why he could walk through the Shades since, if it is like the other cuff (gold being a male metal for Celts and was made to be given by a male), it would protect from the Unseelie. That's another reason why I don't think JB is unseelie. He has a cuff like one that would protect against the unseelie.

I will grant that he may be part Seelie--such as maybe the child/grandchild of one of those humans captured by a Seelie and taken back to Faerie way back before the Compact. That would make sense for a number of reasons. He would have to be very old then--the thousands of years feeling holds. He also would have some of that sifting ability that he seems to display as well as strength, but not in full force. It would explain why he knows and converses with V'lane rather than them just trying to kill each other as Unseelie and Seelie are wont to do. (For that matter, they could be half-siblings or perhaps V'Lane could even be his father/grandfather.) It would also explain the reference to it being Mac's world, but not necessarily his. There is a lot of potential there and I will leave that for another time since this is my first post.

As for the Selkie part, here are just a few of the points I have for that:

Celtic/Pict -- general region where Silkies are said to be from along the sea. Selkies are definitely Celtic mythical beings.

Sexual--selkie men are generally portrayed as dark-haired and very sexy in human form and are prone to seducing human women. They are generally not faithful lovers, either. This would all fit with JB's looks, his slicked back dark hair (seal like?), and his apparent lack of fidelity to any one woman, including the somewhat mocking comment he makes to Fiona about her being "faithful."

Swimming and Underground -- JB comments about how no one knows the underground as well as he does and swims amazingly well and quickly without difficulty in the underground river. He comments about the boat escape long ago through those underground rivers for people who knew their way around. Who better to know their way around than a Selkie who would swim the waterways?

Additional points (though not by any means all of them): JB often appears wet--like the red silk shirt plastered to him.

He wears a dark coat, which itself is very similar to a seal skin that he would have had as a selkie in seal form.

He comments about the Shades hating frogs. I'm assuming he means the amphibian type since it was underground and around water at the time. How would he know this unless he was somehow underwater with the Shades and the frogs? I think it is one of those weird references out of no where that actually means something.

There are the comments about somethings being worth more than your life--such as freedom he would have lost with the loss of his seal skin and how he has been held captive by the cuff and torque?

He doesn't think or even look human quite frequently. There are growls and barks--like a seal?--as well as smiles that are more teeth than smiling, again like an animal and even referred to as being like an animal.

Anyway, there is plenty more that could support JB being a captive Selkie, or at least part selkie and possibly part Seelie but part human cursed/blessed with the protection of the cuff he wears all the time.

Those are just a few thoughts I have. He could be Selkie, part Selkie, Part Seelie, or part of both and part human. I mean, what would it be like if he was a child of a Seelie and a captured human? Or their grandchild with the other parent being the child of a Selkie and a human? I do think that whatever Fae blood he might have would be somewhat diluted or he wouldn't be able to have the contact with Mac that he does.

So. Yeah. I'm confused. But at least the thoughts are vivid. :happy0194:

[Cheryle]

So, I just got the book this weekend and have read it twice already. I admit that this is the first KMM book I've read so I am unfamiliar with how close to Celtic mythology she has followed.. But. Having gone through the threads and really fallen for the book, I just had to toss in my own thoughts here.

Has anyone considered that JB might be at least part Selkie? (more on that in a moment)

I agree with the thing about him being old--as in ancient. There is a lot to support that, starting off with just the fact that he lists two essentially wiped out peoples as his ethnicity. The Picts were absorbed into the Scots, Welsh, and Anglo-Saxons way back around Roman Britannia times. Add that into all the other comments and references that have been mentioned, and well...he is old. And Selkies are sometimes portrayed as immortal.

What I really think is that the cuff and torque are his curse and his protection at the same time. Remember when Mac is asking V'lane about the "Catch" with the golden cuff he tries to get her to take? I think JB is someone that took a cuff--perhaps from the Queen since silver is related to the feminine in Celtic mythology as well as the moon and water (more Selkie points there)--and has since been trapped in some sense with more than he bargained for.

It would also explain why he could walk through the Shades since, if it is like the other cuff (gold being a male metal for Celts and was made to be given by a male), it would protect from the Unseelie. That's another reason why I don't think JB is unseelie. He has a cuff like one that would protect against the unseelie.

I will grant that he may be part Seelie--such as maybe the child/grandchild of one of those humans captured by a Seelie and taken back to Faerie way back before the Compact. That would make sense for a number of reasons. He would have to be very old then--the thousands of years feeling holds. He also would have some of that sifting ability that he seems to display as well as strength, but not in full force. It would explain why he knows and converses with V'lane rather than them just trying to kill each other as Unseelie and Seelie are wont to do. (For that matter, they could be half-siblings or perhaps V'Lane could even be his father/grandfather.) It would also explain the reference to it being Mac's world, but not necessarily his. There is a lot of potential there and I will leave that for another time since this is my first post.

As for the Selkie part, here are just a few of the points I have for that:

Celtic/Pict -- general region where Silkies are said to be from along the sea. Selkies are definitely Celtic mythical beings.

Sexual--selkie men are generally portrayed as dark-haired and very sexy in human form and are prone to seducing human women. They are generally not faithful lovers, either. This would all fit with JB's looks, his slicked back dark hair (seal like?), and his apparent lack of fidelity to any one woman, including the somewhat mocking comment he makes to Fiona about her being "faithful."

Swimming and Underground -- JB comments about how no one knows the underground as well as he does and swims amazingly well and quickly without difficulty in the underground river. He comments about the boat escape long ago through those underground rivers for people who knew their way around. Who better to know their way around than a Selkie who would swim the waterways?

Additional points (though not by any means all of them): JB often appears wet--like the red silk shirt plastered to him.

He wears a dark coat, which itself is very similar to a seal skin that he would have had as a selkie in seal form.

He comments about the Shades hating frogs. I'm assuming he means the amphibian type since it was underground and around water at the time. How would he know this unless he was somehow underwater with the Shades and the frogs? I think it is one of those weird references out of no where that actually means something.

There are the comments about somethings being worth more than your life--such as freedom he would have lost with the loss of his seal skin and how he has been held captive by the cuff and torque?

He doesn't think or even look human quite frequently. There are growls and barks--like a seal?--as well as smiles that are more teeth than smiling, again like an animal and even referred to as being like an animal.

Anyway, there is plenty more that could support JB being a captive Selkie, or at least part selkie and possibly part Seelie but part human cursed/blessed with the protection of the cuff he wears all the time.

Those are just a few thoughts I have. He could be Selkie, part Selkie, Part Seelie, or part of both and part human. I mean, what would it be like if he was a child of a Seelie and a captured human? Or their grandchild with the other parent being the child of a Selkie and a human? I do think that whatever Fae blood he might have would be somewhat diluted or he wouldn't be able to have the contact with Mac that he does.

So. Yeah. I'm confused. But at least the thoughts are vivid. :happy0194:


First and foremost welcome Vivid!!!

Secondly OH WOW. I totally forgot about the selkies. I think you may be on to something. This would definately be different and unique the something special that I think he is. LOVE YOUR IDEA!!!!!! :happy0158:

You must get the rest of Karen's books and read them, all of them have bits and pieces that seem to tie into this series. Plus I think you would really enjoy them, I adored them!!!

[fleming]

Yes I think you got something there... I caught that too. I've also noticed that he never seems to be out in the daylight hours, he's always 'busy". The shades seem repulsed by him as well. Not to mention the 3 levels under the bookstore. He also has a "keeper" (i think thats what he refered fiona as), maybe to watch over him in the daylight, when he's at his weakest? The unwillingness to touch the spear of destiny, not having a mirror handy, and his unnatural speed and strength.
I'm leaning toword the vampire theory right now... my 2 cents.

[claudia celestial girl]

I'm confused. But at least the thoughts are vivid.

Har Har! Welcome to the Board! Read more of KMM's material - the other Highlander books are wonderful, and are going to be important to the Fever series anyway, so you HAVE to read them.

thanks for sharing your thoughts on Selkies! I'll have to go look them up - never heard of them. But I'm excited to discover something completely new from Celtic lore. Post often! We'd love to hear more of your fabulous ideas!

[Virginia]

I was re-reading Darkfever. I think V'lane is giving Mac some clues about JB when he says to her ,
"It is my understanding that you have betrayed yourself to one or more of the Unseelie,"
and also when he offers Mac the arm cuff, he says,
"...It permits a sheild of sorts against many Unseelie and ...other unsavory things."
Other "unsavory things" here meaning JB?

[Pyxie]

:happy_face_waving: First and foremost, Welcome aboard! Hope we a lot more of you around here.

WOW! I had forgotten about the selkies, and yes, a lot does fit with this theory. So many of our theories all have items that fit, so it will be interesting to see what he actually is! I wonder if I will be able to say - "I KNEW it!" of if I am going to say "Whuh...never saw THAT coming!" LOL! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it'll be fun to ponder this one too. :happy0158:

[Pyxie]

"...It permits a sheild of sorts against many Unseelie and ...other unsavory things."
Other "unsavory things" here meaning JB?

Yeah, I think there is a lot to the 'unsavory things' statement that V'lane makes. ;-)

[oracle]

I was re-reading Darkfever. I think V'lane is giving Mac some clues about JB when he says to her ,
"It is my understanding that you have betrayed yourself to one or more of the Unseelie,"
and also when he offers Mac the arm cuff, he says,
"...It permits a sheild of sorts against many Unseelie and ...other unsavory things."
Other "unsavory things" here meaning JB?

I'm clear that V'lane is refering to the "many-mouthed thing" Mac had just run into. I don't think he's referring to JB as unsavory. It would seem that V'lane and JB are in communication or how about this Fiona and V'lane are in communication. That's how he gets that inside info...

[Danielle42]

I'm clear that V'lane is refering to the "many-mouthed thing" Mac had just run into. I don't think he's referring to JB as unsavory. It would seem that V'lane and JB are in communication or how about this Fiona and V'lane are in communication. That's how he gets that inside info...

I think he is (referring to JZB) - V'lane and JZB are definitely in competition over a number of things - the Hallows as well as Mac. I think V'lane is referring to JZB and trying to get Mac to doubt/wonder about him as well.

Can you tell that I DO NOT trust V'lane?!?!!

I can't help it. While JZB isn't giving us a lot of material to work with, I can't help but feel that he ios the sympathetic male lead in this drama. He has a lot of self-interest driving him (his own personal OOP detector) but I think his feelings and his actions to date (even in DF) already go beyond that. especially in the last few scenes, when he rescued Mac and afterwards.

And honestly, would he be painting her nails if he only saw her as a means to an end?

[oracle]

I think he is (referring to JZB) - V'lane and JZB are definitely in competition over a number of things - the Hallows as well as Mac. I think V'lane is referring to JZB and trying to get Mac to doubt/wonder about him as well.


I beg to differ. While I do not care for V'lane, I do not sense any competition or undermining of JZB. It almost seems that He and JZB have been talking. Whether it's amicable or not, I am not sure but I see nowhere in the reading that he was referring to JZB as an unsavory thing. I believe he's referring to Unseelie and other unsavory creatures from the Unseelie world and not JZB. Later on in the book JZB tells Mac that V'lane told him about his encounter with Mac. I think JZB have a relationship that may be at best tenuous but I don't see V'lane as outright undermining JZB...not so soon...

[oracle]

Oooh I just read the newsletter and I must correct myself. There is no explicit mention of tension between JZB and V'lane but there sure is a hint...Woo...

[desertwolf]

:crying-vi: "sixties lounge lizard" ... Desertwolf , you just broke ME heart! lol...
I think Jericho is now AND going to be the Rogue for awhile longer. But... I do believe JZB will become the Hero of the story, along with Mac of course. I want him to be the NICE GUY in the end... :2v-vi:.. I think Karen will give us our Happy Ending at the end of this series... I just Know it :happy0158:

pss...*Jo* I still 'wuv' Ye and I want throw the rotten cabbage at Ye!! :happy0194:


Sorry Bella :6: - It's the greased back hair that makes me think of the lizard.

[desertwolf]

Has anyone considered that JB might be at least part Selkie? As for the Selkie part, here are just a few of the points I have for that:

Celtic/Pict -- general region where Silkies are said to be from along the sea. Selkies are definitely Celtic mythical beings.

Sexual--selkie men are generally portrayed as dark-haired and very sexy in human form and are prone to seducing human women. They are generally not faithful lovers, either. This would all fit with JB's looks, his slicked back dark hair (seal like?), and his apparent lack of fidelity to any one woman, including the somewhat mocking comment he makes to Fiona about her being "faithful."

Swimming and Underground -- JB comments about how no one knows the underground as well as he does and swims amazingly well and quickly without difficulty in the underground river. He comments about the boat escape long ago through those underground rivers for people who knew their way around. Who better to know their way around than a Selkie who would swim the waterways?

Additional points (though not by any means all of them): JB often appears wet--like the red silk shirt plastered to him.

He wears a dark coat, which itself is very similar to a seal skin that he would have had as a selkie in seal form.

He comments about the Shades hating frogs. I'm assuming he means the amphibian type since it was underground and around water at the time. How would he know this unless he was somehow underwater with the Shades and the frogs? I think it is one of those weird references out of no where that actually means something.

There are the comments about somethings being worth more than your life--such as freedom he would have lost with the loss of his seal skin and how he has been held captive by the cuff and torque?

He doesn't think or even look human quite frequently. There are growls and barks--like a seal?--as well as smiles that are more teeth than smiling, again like an animal and even referred to as being like an animal.

Anyway, there is plenty more that could support JB being a captive Selkie, or at least part selkie and possibly part Seelie but part human cursed/blessed with the protection of the cuff he wears all the time.

Those are just a few thoughts I have. He could be Selkie, part Selkie, Part Seelie, or part of both and part human. I mean, what would it be like if he was a child of a Seelie and a captured human? Or their grandchild with the other parent being the child of a Selkie and a human? I do think that whatever Fae blood he might have would be somewhat diluted or he wouldn't be able to have the contact with Mac that he does.

So. Yeah. I'm confused. But at least the thoughts are vivid. :happy0194:

I like the Selkie theory even better than my robot one. I can see Barrons as a frog. :03: Thank you for that - Have you ever read Seal Island? It's about a Selkie.

[Pyxie]

Sorry Bella :6: - It's the greased back hair that makes me think of the lizard.

I guess when I read it, I just took the 'slicked' back to mean something along the lines of running your fingers through your hair to keep it behind your shoulders and away from your face. I never thought about having it totally greased up - reminds me of that movie 'The Outsiders' with all the 'greasers'. LOL! Now there is a visual of JZB I just didn't need. Even though I am very intrigued by JZB, Now I keep seeing a 'sixties lounge lizard'! :happy0194:

[Vivid Confusion]

I like the Selkie theory even better than my robot one. I can see Barrons as a frog. :03: Thank you for that - Have you ever read Seal Island? It's about a Selkie.

A frog? Not. :happy0194: A seal, however.... Yup. It goes with Fiona's line to JB (when the potential for Mac to be a Null first comes up). JB says "She couldn't possibly be a Null, Fio. They're mythical." Fiona says "So you say. As are many things. Aren't they, Jerrico?" We need to think of things that mythical beings -- like fae and vampires -- would consider mythical, like a selkie or ...? ...to figure out what Jerrico is since he is obviously one of those mythical-to-the-mythical beings, like he considers a Null. He also must be something or from some situation that would allow Fiona to have "romanticized" him, as he says she has done. So--a mythological being unusual even among mythological beings and a romantic type at that. Oh, and one with metaphysical abilities, too, since he does the whole dividing his presence thing. And it has to be something that is present in either Pict or Basque mythology, if not both--at least it should if KMM is following consistency in story line. The only other alternative would be someone that was converted to something and I really don't think the were or vampire concepts fit well.

I've also thought of him being the mixed blood seelie and human, with a low level of the "death-by-sex" incubus attributes of a seelie like V'lane. That would support his nominal communication with V'lane. That might result in a half-fae who was addicted to humans as well; a sort of reverse pri'ya. It all goes to that mention of a concubine in relationship to the cuff and the question of what happens when a human and a fae have a child, or for that matter--what if a seelie and an unseelie royal had a child? Or a selkie and a fae? Or...

But of course, he could also be a Fir Bolg (or one of the other 2 related indigenous peoples)....and now that I think of it... Fir Bolg seems very reasonable since they seem to have some ties with Picts and Proto-gaelic peoples...Possibly related to the Basque? And they predate the Tuatha De.

Anyway, more thoughts to confuse and confound. :33:

Viv.

P.S.: No I haven't read the book. Any connection to the "Roan Inish" legend?

[desertwolf]

A frog? Not. :happy0194: A seal, however.... Viv.

P.S.: No I haven't read the book. Any connection to the "Roan Inish" legend?

I think a seal works for me especially after reading Seal Island.

I don't think it's connected in any way. It's a romance that came out a while back here the link to Amazaon (if it works)http://www.amazon.com/Seal-Island-Kate-Brallier/dp/0765348926/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3781161-2605245?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190315876&sr=8-1

[tiffany]

I am new to the message board, but I have scanned the entries into the clues about JB. I don't recall seeing one in regards to the fact that when Mac and JB went to O'Conners' restaurant JB barely touched his food. He said he ate earlier. For some reason this really sticks out in my head.

I also wondered if Jericho Barrons is an anagram for something else.

Tiffany

[Danielle42]

I am new to the message board, but I have scanned the entries into the clues about JB. I don't recall seeing one in regards to the fact that when Mac and JB went to O'Conners' restaurant JB barely touched his food. He said he ate earlier. For some reason this really sticks out in my head.

I also wondered if Jericho Barrons is an anagram for something else.

Tiffany

Good point! Now that you mention it, I remember thinking it was odd...

[Pyxie]

I am new to the message board, but I have scanned the entries into the clues about JB. I don't recall seeing one in regards to the fact that when Mac and JB went to O'Conners' restaurant JB barely touched his food. He said he ate earlier. For some reason this really sticks out in my head.

I also wondered if Jericho Barrons is an anagram for something else.

Tiffany

:happy_face_waving: Hi Tiffany! Welcome aboard! Be sure to stop by the Tea Room and introduce yourself so everyone gets to say hi.

I did notice this too, when I first read it I thought he might be a Vampire. Now, I have no clue what he is. LOL. - I think it will be worth the wait to find out what he is though!

[unforgettable]

I actually like Mac. She seems real to me. She's not perfect. She's naieve & does what every typical young girl does. As she experiences things she grows. Trust me, there are a lot of girls out there in real life that are much worse than her. She's very tough for being so overprotected. I was thinking the whole time towards the end, "go get JB, don't be dumb & think you can take them by yourself." She does act a little too proper though, but maybe KMM wants us to see how innocent she started out as.

I think JB is older than his 30's (not physiologically though). I think he & Fiona had something going on when she was younger. His license said he was born on Halloween. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[unforgettable]

I've been reading the posts and finding them interesting. Since I don't have a booklet I gather that Jerricho has been pegged to be Mac's love interest, is that true?

Too bad, he bugs me.

I think I'm the only one here that doesn't like the boy. For a whatever he is (I'm leaning towards Robot :happy0158:) he's got an enormous stick crammed up his butt. He is rude, he is cold, he is manipulative and conniving, even worse unfeeling. He didn't even care that Mac had lost her sister - what kind of a hero is that? JB could have at least let the news register in his head. Then he's jerking Fiona around. And his looks - he sounds like a sixties lounge lizard - I bet he wears a gold medallion under his shirt. Sure he was useful toward the end of DF but he stood to lose if anything happened to Mac.

By the way, I happen to like Mac. :anim_headbang-vi:Sure she likes pink, she likes to look good and knows when she does, but she was also good with her cash, confident, brave (french fry incident) and smarter than she's been given credit. This was somebody with experience reading people and handling herself. I have to give her credit for going to Ireland by herself when nobody else was supporting her. By the end of DF she was doing good. I think she'll kick a*& as a sidhe-seer.

Too bad she can't kick JB to the curb.


I'm with you on that. JB hasn't grown on me yet. I guess we'll see what happens in the next book.

[unforgettable]

:happy_face_waving: Hi Tiffany! Welcome aboard! Be sure to stop by the Tea Room and introduce yourself so everyone gets to say hi.

I did notice this too, when I first read it I thought he might be a Vampire. Now, I have no clue what he is. LOL. - I think it will be worth the wait to find out what he is though!

Remember when he had blood on him? He told Mac it was from a dog, but she said she later learned it was human & didn't go into more detail with it. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I don't think the sun could kill the vampire, b/c he said things like wooden stakes don't.

[FloridaLass]

I actually like Mac. She seems real to me. She's not perfect. She's naieve & does what every typical young girl does. As she experiences things she grows. Trust me, there are a lot of girls out there in real life that are much worse than her. She's very tough for being so overprotected. I was thinking the whole time towards the end, "go get JB, don't be dumb & think you can take them by yourself." She does act a little too proper though, but maybe KMM wants us to see how innocent she started out as.

I think JB is older than his 30's (not physiologically though). I think he & Fiona had something going on when she was younger. His license said he was born on Halloween. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

I feel the same way..yes Mac a first was a suprise to me because KKM writes her female leads as more mature women. But I can totally identify with Mac because I have 2 almost 19 yr olds living at home and they are so much like her, ie; sheltered, one loves pink, love that they are cute to look at, love clothes, and I hope they don't read this but yes shallow at times.

But they are also strong like Mac. When it comes down to it in DF at the end in the warehouse she suprises herself with her fighting ablilities. She is strong and comming into her own. I give her credit for going to Ireland by herself.
So I like her..and feel I will grow to love her in the comming books and identify with her as she matures.

I heard a song on the radio today and thought of Mac and her being alone in Ireland. "I'll Stand by You" by the Pretenders. The Lyrics go:

Oh, why you look so sad?
Tears are in your eyes
Come on and come to me now
Dont be ashamed to cry
Let me see you through
cause Ive seen the dark side too
When the night falls on you
You dont know what to do
Nothing you confess
Could make me love you less

Ill stand by you
Ill stand by you
Wont let nobody hurt you
Ill stand by you

So if youre mad, get mad
Dont hold it all inside
Come on and talk to me now
Hey, what you got to hide?
I get angry too
Well Im a lot like you
When youre standing at the crossroads
And dont know which path to choose
Let me come along
cause even if youre wrong

Ill stand by you
Ill stand by you
Wont let nobody hurt you
Ill stand by you
Take me in, into your darkest hour
And Ill never desert you
Ill stand by you

And when...
When the night falls on you, baby
Youre feeling all alone
You wont be on your own


Sorry I wrote a book here, guys.