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aprilssix
12-20-2010, 04:41 PM
So we find out in Dream about what Iron does to the Fae. Even Nana has a walking stick made of iron or part of it is iron.

We have discussed the torcs, meanings and colors.

The compact we know is made of pure gold, very fragile.

Then i found this in DH.

PB pg 274-275

"That's not very sensible." Chloe pointed out faintly, "It's too mallable. Pure gold is too soft, too easily damaged. That's why so many of the ancient torcs had cores of iron beneath the gold. Well, that and to help deflect a potenial sword. What compact, anyway?"

Interesting those torcs have cores of IRON beneath them, the very same thing that kills Fae! :shocked:

Grneyes
12-20-2010, 06:43 PM
Interesting, especially since we know Adam and other male Fae have worn torcs. Are they made of some other Fae-type metal? Or pure gold? Or is iron only for the Unseelie?

~Aimee~
12-20-2010, 06:54 PM
I've been wondering why Barrons, Adam and the Unseelie Princes all wear black torques. That one has been puzzling me.

aprilssix
12-20-2010, 06:58 PM
Interesting, especially since we know Adam and other male Fae have worn torcs. Are they made of some other Fae-type metal? Or pure gold? Or is iron only for the Unseelie?

I am still up in the air as to what Adam really is...lol, but i sure would like to know what is under those torcs we have read about...

Gonna throw this out there and probably make myself look dumb once again...lmao...but why would a torc help deflect a potenial sword? I would assume a torc is not very big therfore not used as a stopping machanism when a sword is being weilded at one to kill.

Can one of these torcs be used against the unseelei sword?

Grneyes
12-20-2010, 06:59 PM
I always figured Adam wore black because he's just that type of person. He's the "black elf"....why not live up to that name as completely as possible?

aprilssix
12-20-2010, 07:01 PM
I always figured Adam wore black because he's just that type of person. He's the "black elf"....why not live up to that name as completely as possible?

Couldn't a black torc simply be a tarnished torc?

~Aimee~
12-20-2010, 07:16 PM
Here's what I found online about torques:

Definition of a Torque taken from the Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia:
A twisted metal neck-ring, a necklace, a collar,

1. A twisted ornament forming a necklace or collar for the neck, particularly one worn by uncivilized people, and of such a make as to retain its rigidity and circular form. Such a collar was considered a characteristic attribute of the ancient Gauls.

They [the Gauls] wore collars and torques of gold, necklaces, and bracelets, and strings of brightly-coloured beads, made of glass or of a material like the Egyptian porcelain.


Definition taken from Wikipedia on Torc:

A torc, also spelled torq or torque, is a large, usually rigid, neck ring typically made from strands of metal twisted together. The great majority are open-ended at the front, although many seem designed for near-permanent wear, and would have been difficult to remove, despite the softness of gold. Smaller torcs worn around the wrist are called bracelets instead. Torcs are found in the Scythian, Illyrian[1] Thracian, Celtic, and other cultures of the European Iron Age, from around the 8th century BC to the 3rd century AD. The Celtic torc disappears in the Migration Period, but during the Viking Age, torc-style metal necklaces came back into fashion.[2]

Depictions of the gods and goddesses of Celtic mythology frequently show them wearing torcs. A 1st century BC example is the Snettisham Torc found in southwestern Norfolk in England. A significant, rare find of four gold torcs dating from the 1st – 3rd century B.C. was discovered in a field in Stirlingshire, Scotland in September 2009.[6] The hoard may have belonged to a noble of high status, possibly the chieftain of what would become the Pictish Caledonii people. Such burials are likely to be either burial with the owner or a votive sacrificial offering to the gods.[6]

Another example from the 1st century BC is the Winchester Hoard which was built in the Iron Age style, but using Roman "technology", hence suggesting it may have been a "diplomatic gift" from a Roman to a British tribal king.[7][8]

It was said by some authors that the torc was an ornament for women until the 4th century BC, when it became an attribute of warriors.[citation needed]

A very late example of a torc used as ceremonial item in early Medieval Wales can be found in the writings of Gerald of Wales. The author wrote that there still existed a certain royal torc that had once been worn by Prince Cynog ap Brychan of Brycheiniog (fl.492AD) and was known as Saint Kynauc's Collar. Gerald encountered and described this relic first hand while travelling through Wales in 1188. Of it he says; "it is most like to gold in weight, nature, and colour; it is in four pieces wrought round, joined together artificially, and clefted as it were in the middle, with a dog's head, the teeth standing outward; it is esteemed by the inhabitants so powerful a relic, that no man dares swear falsely when it is laid before him."[9] It is of course possible that this torc long pre-dated the reign of Prince Cynog and was a much earlier relic that had been recycled during the British Dark Ages to be used as a symbol of royal authority. This treasure is now sadly lost.

Torcs are also found buried with women, for example the gold torc from the La Tène period chariot burial of a princess, found in Waldalgesheim, Germany, and another found in a woman's grave at Reinheim. Another La Tene example was found as part of a hoard buried near Erstfeld.[10] The famous heavy silver "bull torc" found in Trichtingen, Germany, dates to the 2nd century BC.
The torc was a sign of nobility and high social status: and possibly a divine attribute, since some depictions of Celtic gods wear one or more torcs. Images of the god Cernunnos wearing one torc around his neck, with torcs hanging from his antlers or held in his hand, have been found.

The Roman consul Titus Manlius in 361 BC challenged a Gaul to single combat and killed him, and then took his torc. Because he always wore it, he received the nickname Torquatus (the one who wears a torc).[11] After this, Romans adopted the torc as a decoration for distinguished soldiers and elite units during Republican times.[citation needed]


Here's references in the fever books to torques on the Unseelie Princes and Barrons.

“They were naked except for the glistening black torques that writhed like liquid darkness around their necks.” – Description by Mac of the Unseelie Princes in the end of Faefever.

“He had on that heavy silver Celtic wrist cuff again that made me think of arcane chants and ancient stone circles, complemented by a black-and-silver torque at his throat.” – Mac describing what Barrons was wearing right before they had one of their wordless discussions about O’Bannions empty cars sitting out in the alleyway in Darkfever.


What purpose do these torques serve for the UP's? For Barrons? For Adam? Is it something used for punishment? Protection? Slavery? Or just simple decoration/adornment? I'm thinking it is because they are all royals and their torques are to symbolize that royalty.

Grneyes
12-20-2010, 07:22 PM
I think Adam's was a mark of his royal house...like how royal families have heirloom jewelry, or sort of like a crown (of royalty, not a real crown obviously)? Or like a coat of arms? I can't find the words I want to use! GRRRRRRRR!!!!

aprilssix
12-20-2010, 07:24 PM
I think Adam's was a mark of his royal house...like how royal families have heirloom jewelry, or sort of like a crown (of royalty, not a real crown obviously)? Or like a coat of arms? I can't find the words I want to use! GRRRRRRRR!!!!

I think your right about that.

Grneyes
12-20-2010, 07:27 PM
I think your right about that.


Remembered the words!! Like a signet ring!! Torques = signet rings.

~Aimee~
12-20-2010, 07:32 PM
So it appears that Barrons torc is slightly different from the Unseelie Princes because it is both black and silver. What was description of Adam's torc?

*Jo*
12-20-2010, 07:48 PM
I've been wondering why Barrons, Adam and the Unseelie Princes all wear black torques. That one has been puzzling me.

Adam's torque & cuffs are yellow gold
V'Lane is in possession of the Cuff of Cruce, yellow gold & gemstones
UPrinces have slithering black torques
Darroc cuffs & torque of black
Barrons, scrolled antiqued cuff, one platinum watch and a torque of black & silver

The only characters to adorn black, whether slithering or stationary are the following : Darroc & the Unseelie Princes

Though I do vaguely recall Cian had worn brown (leather?) cuffs

aprilssix
12-20-2010, 07:52 PM
I wonder if the amulet would be considered a torc?

*Jo*
12-20-2010, 07:57 PM
I wonder if the amulet would be considered a torc?

I dunno april~
An amulet can simply mean a locket type necklace pendant or wiki has the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amulet

It's anyone's guess which description Karen intended.
*shrugs shoulders*

DeeS
12-20-2010, 08:05 PM
Interesting to note that different colored Torcs are also used in The Saga of Pliocene Exile (or the Saga of the Exiles) a series of science / speculative fiction books by Julian May, first published in the early 1980s. It consists of four books: The Many Coloured Land, The Golden Torc, The Nonborn King and The Adversary.

~Aimee~
12-20-2010, 08:15 PM
Adam's torque & cuffs are yellow gold
V'Lane is in possession of the Cuff of Cruce, yellow gold & gemstones
UPrinces have slithering black torques
Darroc cuffs & torque of black
Barrons, scrolled antiqued cuff, one platinum watch and a torque of black & silver

The only characters to adorn black, whether slithering or stationary are the following : Darroc & the Unseelie Princes

Though I do vaguely recall Cian had worn brown (leather?) cuffs


Thank you for answering that question! I don't know why I assumed Adam wore a black torc. I think maybe I picked that up off of another post somewhere. But it's interesting to note that Darroc and the Unseelie Princes all wear Black torcs. They are also working together. Darroc has always worked with the Unseelie Hunters, promised them freedom, brought down the walls of their Unseelie prison, etc.

If torcs are supposed to be symbols of their royalty, wouldn't it also make sense that each royal house would have it's own specific colors and designs for their torcs?

Grneyes
12-20-2010, 08:25 PM
Adam's torque & cuffs are yellow gold



Thanx, for the correction! I had to go back and check after I read this. I was sure Adam had worn black!

*Jo*
12-20-2010, 08:38 PM
No problem, sweetie!
As you can tell, I was trying to find a similar connection as well.
Torques & cuffs tend to designate a royal house of fae, it appears. Each color lends itself to some house.
What I could gather, Darroc was indeed black but he was an elder of the Seelie fae council.
Interesting that the UPrinces adorn the same color, too. Could be designation of family.

The once Seelie now UK my guess would probably be of perhaps the Daoine breed. Add Cruce into this group because he displayed jealousy and supposedly the human emotion like the rest of his brothers. King Finbearra of Beyond the Highland Mist was Daoine as well, consort to QA. None of these were given jewelry by any description I can remember. Sadly. We could have pinpointed them to Barrons house of fae somehow if they too, wore torques & cuffs of silver...

One of the highlander books, not Into the Dreaming, alluded to the flaw that the 'dark fallen angel' group fell in 'love' as humans. Product of their environment?! Living within the human realm?! Totally a possibility.

It seems so far, that the Seellie TDD have not fallen to the emotion of love as their dark haired familars...