Some thoughts on DF re-read

[claudia celestial girl]

I've re-read DF now, with BF, and a few teasers under my belt. Here's what I started wondering about with the additional info from the next book in the Fever series. I"ll use the spoiler button when I mix in stuff from BF.

On how much contact there may be between The Lord Master aka Darroc and JB prior to the start of DF:


1) Cian MacKeltar got a thief to come to Lucan's basement and steal all the dark Hallows that were in his possession, including the Dark Mirror. Is it possible that Darroc knew of JB, and talked to JB about the hallows at the same timeframe that he talked to Lucan about them? JB says that insiders knew immediately when Lucan disappeared and in short order the bulk of Lucan's private collection when on the black market (because Malluce had already seen the pages), but by the time of the auction lots of the stuff was already gone. Could Darroc have been the one who told JB that Lucan was dead?

It seems to me that if the Fae are watching JB (per V'Lane's statement), that when Darroc became human he must have started contacting everyone he knew who had any magic ability. He also must have started recruiting Malluce. John Johnstone, Jr. disappeared, and Malluce appeared, with all these abilities a few years before the start of DF. And we know from BF: that Malluce had been eating Unseelie, and that had given him his seeming 'vampire' powers. So The Lord Master must have known Malluce long before the opening of DF. Did The Lord Master know of JB? If he didn't 'know' him, might he have known him by reputation?


2. Could JB be in league with The Lord Master? We know that JB has 'sources' - he seems to know, like, when Malluce is out of town. And we know from BF: that TLM allowed Mac to stay with JB when JB insisted on it: "She stays with me'. He seems to know lots of things. Is it possible that JB is really working for TLM? In DF, Mac says that she learns later that nothing was as it seemed the night that they went to visit Malluce for the first time, and that JB had gone in there with the quiet assurance that he would come out alive. What if, before the start of DF, JB knows Darroc and is working with Darroc without knowing that Darroc is TLM? What if he doesn't really know who Darroc is - just has contact with him, somehow? Later he discovers that TLM is a) Darroc, and b) Alina's boyfriend. He doesn't seem to think that TLM ordered Alina to be killed.


I certainly believe it is possible for Darroc to be playing more than one of the major characters against one another.


We know from BF: that JB finds out that Hunters are loose in the city, and that 'more are on the way'. (I've always wondered how the heck did he know that) And later we discover that it is Malluce that ordered out the Hunters. Is it possible that Darroc alerted JB that some of his Hunters were out? (because they were doing Malluce's business, not his, and he was pissed?


On whether JB might be a werewolf.

I keep going back and forth on what JB might be: Vampire? Werewolf? Vilkakis? (He is obviously a sorcerer, so these other things he is in addition to being a sorcecer) {I'm sorry Jo I just can't buy into him being Fae, of any persuasion}


3)in DF, when they first meet Malluce, Mac says that something is nagging at her that she would not begin to put her finger on until it was stupidly too late. In mythology, only a werewolf could truly kill a vampire (without staking it). Mac looks back and forth between Malluce and JB and decides that JB is the more dangerous. It is in that context that she makes the comment about not being able to put her finger on 'it' until too late. Mac doesn't supposedly follow paranormal stuff, so maybe she this is not the sort of point she would be able to put her finger on.

There are so many clues in DF about what he could be! It is really hard to figure out.



4) I really think we are going to see McCabe (from Casa Blanc) again. I think Ellis (the anemic-looking man that we see at Casa Blanc) is a vampire. Even Malluce is described as being sinuous and very white. JB would not be described that way. (JB tells Ellis 'we're not from the same gene pool!) When they go down the manhole, Mac describes JB as being like a panther in street clothes. And there are quite a few references to his 'wolf-ish' smile. But there is also that really clear reference to his problems being near Christian relics. So I really can't figure it out.

5) the comment about 'legendary' factors into this somehow. Fio allludes to JB being 'legendary', and that sounds neither like a vampire nore a werewolf, strictly speaking, but more like ... well, there is that famous hound of Odin, a fierce shape-shifting hound. If I remember correctly, the hound couldn't be killed.

Mercenary:

6) JB must have been burned by doing something for money long in the past.

Mac being 'epic'

(from BF) Here's a thought about Mac being epic

7) Mac was doing good with the amulet when she was trying to get the amulet away from Malluce. She siezed it, and she 'acted' with it. As soon as she started asking the Amulet to act for her, she stopped being able to have affect on it. She was saying - 'destroy Malluce for me' That must not be how the Amulet works. I wonder if Mac is going to figure that out and have a chance to try it again. .

[BlueCoyote]

i thought the theft happen accidently because the walls between fairy and human were um... rattled a bit. i forget which book.

i reread Spell recently but now i'm going to have to read it again lol

[claudia celestial girl]

i thought the theft happen accidently because the walls between fairy and human were um... rattled a bit. i forget which book.

i reread Spell recently but now i'm going to have to read it again lol
hmmm. I wonder if I got it wrong. I think I read it in the deleted scene that KMM posted on her blog. He said that he could use the Voice on people while his was in the mirror - that it worked on the thief who he'd commanded to come all the way down to Lucan's basement and steal all the dark hallows. But he couldn't seem to get it to work on Jesse. That might not be exactly how it reads in the published version of SPELL.

[*Jo*]

I've re-read DF now, with BF, and a few teasers under my belt. Here's what I started wondering about with the additional info from the next book in the Fever series. I"ll use the spoiler button when I mix in stuff from BF.

On how much contact there may be between The Lord Master aka Darroc and JB prior to the start of DF:


1) Cian MacKeltar got a thief to come to Lucan's basement and steal all the dark Hallows that were in his possession, including the Dark Mirror. Is it possible that Darroc knew of JB, and talked to JB about the hallows at the same timeframe that he talked to Lucan about them? JB says that insiders knew immediately when Lucan disappeared and in short order the bulk of Lucan's private collection when on the black market (because Malluce had already seen the pages), but by the time of the auction lots of the stuff was already gone. Could Darroc have been the one who told JB that Lucan was dead?

It seems to me that if the Fae are watching JB (per V'Lane's statement), that when Darroc became human he must have started contacting everyone he knew who had any magic ability. He also must have started recruiting Malluce. John Johnstone, Jr. disappeared, and Malluce appeared, with all these abilities a few years before the start of DF. And we know from BF: that Malluce had been eating Unseelie, and that had given him his seeming 'vampire' powers. So The Lord Master must have known Malluce long before the opening of DF. Did The Lord Master know of JB? If he didn't 'know' him, might he have known him by reputation?


2. Could JB be in league with The Lord Master? We know that JB has 'sources' - he seems to know, like, when Malluce is out of town. And we know from BF: that TLM allowed Mac to stay with JB when JB insisted on it: "She stays with me'. He seems to know lots of things. Is it possible that JB is really working for TLM? In DF, Mac says that she learns later that nothing was as it seemed the night that they went to visit Malluce for the first time, and that JB had gone in there with the quiet assurance that he would come out alive. What if, before the start of DF, JB knows Darroc and is working with Darroc without knowing that Darroc is TLM? What if he doesn't really know who Darroc is - just has contact with him, somehow? Later he discovers that TLM is a) Darroc, and b) Alina's boyfriend. He doesn't seem to think that TLM ordered Alina to be killed.


I certainly believe it is possible for Darroc to be playing more than one of the major characters against one another.


We know from BF: that JB finds out that Hunters are loose in the city, and that 'more are on the way'. (I've always wondered how the heck did he know that) And later we discover that it is Malluce that ordered out the Hunters. Is it possible that Darroc alerted JB that some of his Hunters were out? (because they were doing Malluce's business, not his, and he was pissed?


On whether JB might be a werewolf.

I keep going back and forth on what JB might be: Vampire? Werewolf? Vilkakis? (He is obviously a sorcerer, so these other things he is in addition to being a sorcecer) {I'm sorry Jo I just can't buy into him being Fae, of any persuasion}


3)in DF, when they first meet Malluce, Mac says that something is nagging at her that she would not begin to put her finger on until it was stupidly too late. In mythology, only a werewolf could truly kill a vampire (without staking it). Mac looks back and forth between Malluce and JB and decides that JB is the more dangerous. It is in that context that she makes the comment about not being able to put her finger on 'it' until too late. Mac doesn't supposedly follow paranormal stuff, so maybe she this is not the sort of point she would be able to put her finger on.

There are so many clues in DF about what he could be! It is really hard to figure out.



4) I really think we are going to see McCabe (from Casa Blanc) again. I think Ellis (the anemic-looking man that we see at Casa Blanc) is a vampire. Even Malluce is described as being sinuous and very white. JB would not be described that way. (JB tells Ellis 'we're not from the same gene pool!) When they go down the manhole, Mac describes JB as being like a panther in street clothes. And there are quite a few references to his 'wolf-ish' smile. But there is also that really clear reference to his problems being near Christian relics. So I really can't figure it out.

5) the comment about 'legendary' factors into this somehow. Fio allludes to JB being 'legendary', and that sounds neither like a vampire nore a werewolf, strictly speaking, but more like ... well, there is that famous hound of Odin, a fierce shape-shifting hound. If I remember correctly, the hound couldn't be killed.

Mercenary:

6) JB must have been burned by doing something for money long in the past.

Mac being 'epic'

(from BF) Here's a thought about Mac being epic

7) Mac was doing good with the amulet when she was trying to get the amulet away from Malluce. She siezed it, and she 'acted' with it. As soon as she started asking the Amulet to act for her, she stopped being able to have affect on it. She was saying - 'destroy Malluce for me' That must not be how the Amulet works. I wonder if Mac is going to figure that out and have a chance to try it again. .

JUST one point only then I will ponder the rest for another timeframe.

Adam, with Gabrielle in Immortal, could not see the Hunters when he was cursed. YET I am sure that if he was in FAE FORM, he would have been able to see them. Adam made not mention of them as being mythological creatures...Which brings us to the point of JZB. He states a fact to MAC...He doesn't comment 'I have heard' or 'someone told me the Hunters were in the city', if I recall correctly.
But hey! In the end, I get to read other's great theories, it uses up time til FF comes out, and noone lost sleep over it. It's a win, win situation!

[BlueCoyote]

me too, Pyxie lol when i replied it wasnt even half that long! i remember her disclaimer however, she said she was still adding thoughts lol i figured she was done!

awesome job with the fact finding! now i'll go and read it ALL this time and throw in my thoughts.

[Pyxie]

JUST one point only then I will ponder the rest for another timeframe.

Which brings us to the point of JZB. He states a fact to MAC...He doesn't comment 'I have heard' or 'someone told me the Hunters were in the city', if I recall correctly.

Actually doesn't he state something along the lines of...word is there are more hunters...I don't have my book in front of me, but the way he puts it, it does sound like someone told him.


LOL! Claudia how long did it take you to type this? There is a lot of info here. Going to re-read your post and write a reply.

[claudia celestial girl]

JUST one point only then I will ponder the rest for another timeframe.

Adam, with Gabrielle in Immortal, could not see the Hunters when he was cursed. YET I am sure that if he was in FAE FORM, he would have been able to see them. Adam made not mention of them as being mythological creatures...Which brings us to the point of JZB. He states a fact to MAC...He doesn't comment 'I have heard' or 'someone told me the Hunters were in the city', if I recall correctly.
But hey! In the end, I get to read other's great theories, it uses up time til FF comes out, and noone lost sleep over it. It's a win, win situation!
Yes- I get your point. But wait - Adam did see the Hunters, didn't he? He saw them when they were in the room with him in Atlanta. OK - that was because Darroc allowed it, Darroc wanted Adam to see him.

Yeah - I'm not saying I can explain everything. Just gut feelings.

JB is clearly a male Sidhe-seer. However I'm not sure how much he is aware of. He seems to not be aware that the shadows are learning emotion. He can't see the Spear (??? - he couldn't pick it out from O'Bannion's lair). He can see the Grey Man (and it can see him). And he knows ooodle's about them. Including tons about the Unseelie. I'm willing to bet that he knows more about the Unseelie than any MacKeltar, including Cian. (Except maybe Dageus post-Draghar). I"m just more willing to bet that his knowledge & sight is because of his being an ancient sorcerer than being Fae or half-Fae. I'm willing to bet that he was around when the Fae first came. You know that I was convinced for a while that he'd made a deal with the god that the Draghar dragged into their conflict with the Fae - the one that gave them to power to challenge the Tuatha De. If there are gods with power out there in the KMM universe, who can challenge the Tuatha De and empower human sorcerers, then there are powers out there that can enable JB to 'see' the Fae and interact with them.

[claudia celestial girl]

Actually doesn't he state something along the lines of...word is there are more hunters...I don't have my book in front of me, but the way he puts it, it does sound like someone told him.


LOL! Claudia how long did it take you to type this? There is a lot of info here. Going to re-read your post and write a reply.
yeah - he said 'word is...'

yeah- it took me an hour to type all that! Saving along the way (because if you wait too long Leiha's software logs you off!)

[*Jo*]

Thanks Pyxie, I am WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. LMAO. See I told you all I eat crow...and I am getting forgetful. Must be my age.
:notworthy:
BUT I know that Adam did not see the Hunters on the street.
Adam told Gabby to leave...
Turn around and walk the other way...
She was the one that had stuttered "Hhhhhhh-uuunnnn..."
Adam cut in then. Gabby never finishes the word. BUT HE never saw that I recall.
Don't make me look up the page...please, please, please...


Is that right ? Pyxie ?!!! Geeze. I'm loosing it...
:swoon:

[BlueCoyote]

Two things i tripped over:

1.)
But there is also that really clear reference to his problems being near Christian relics. So I really can't figure it out.
i dont remember that in the books. not saying it didnt happen but dont remember it. i have only reread each of them once, so you got the edge on me lol but i will correct that soon enough. All i remember is him mentioning the spear and Christ. and that Christ was already dead before they stabbed him with the spear.. so there was nothing extraordinary that stood out to me. well nothing related to this anyway. i have other questions involving the spear but this isnt the place for them.

2.)
He can't see the Spear (??? - he couldn't pick it out from O'Bannion's lair)
that part is confusing.... he knows of the spear... knows what it can do... knows where it is... but he couldnt point and say "there it is" regardless of his inability of sensing it.
i mean that makes as much sense as... like.... knowing for a fact there is a can of baked beans in your cupboard but you cant tell them from a tin of tuna fish, canned corn, or black eyed peas. eh?
he knew the spear was in there, or did he know there was weapon in there?
he got it just for Mac.. but he didnt know what he was getting?

[Pyxie]

Thanks Pyxie, I am WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. LMAO. See I told you all I eat crow...and I am getting forgetful. Must be my age.
:notworthy:
BUT I know that Adam did not see the Hunters on the street.
Adam told Gabby to leave...
Turn around and walk the other way...
She was the one that had stuttered "Hhhhhhh-uuunnnn..."
Adam cut in then. Gabby never finishes the word. BUT HE never saw that I recall.
Don't make me look up the page...please, please, please...


Is that right ? Pyxie ?!!! Geeze. I'm loosing it...
:swoon:

LMAO Jo, no one is going to be eating more crow then me! I'm the biggest Werewolf supporter in the group, I think. That's what I decided on and I'm stickin' to it! right up until all those crows bury me!!! :wlaugh:

I think you got it 100% with Adam and the hunters, I don't remember him being able to see them.

Claudia, I see where you are going with this and it makes perfect sense, but I'm not sure that TLM and Jericho are working together. I think it might be more like they are using each other. I think they have separate agenda's. Do both of them want the book enough to kill for it? Absolutely. But I don't see them working together - unless they are doing so with the intention of killing the other one off once they get what they need.

TLM has no use for the human race - unless that has changed.

Barrons may not have much use for the human race either, but he mentioned that he didn't want anymore Unseelie in his city, (Darroc is flooding Ireland with Unseelie) and his store stands as a bastion between the shades and the rest of the city.

[claudia celestial girl]

I think you got it 100% with Adam and the hunters, I don't remember him being able to see them.

Claudia, I see where you are going with this and it makes perfect sense, but I'm not sure that TLM and Jericho are working together. I think it might be more like they are using each other. I think they have separate agenda's. Do both of them want the book enough to kill for it? Absolutely. But I don't see them working together - unless they are doing so with the intention of killing the other one off once they get what they need.

TLM has no use for the human race - unless that has changed.

Barrons may not have much use for the human race either, but he mentioned that he didn't want anymore Unseelie in his city, (Darroc is flooding Ireland with Unseelie) and his store stands as a bastion between the shades and the rest of the city.
Yes, I agree. I'm not saying that they are working together, but that perhaps they are both using each other. JB gets information from him.
I mean - JB knows the Unseelie are walking around, and he's not panicked about it. He knows the Grey Man is out, and didn't know 'things had gone this far...' I can't conjecture how closely they know each other, just that it's possible that they have closer contact than Mac would be comfortable with.

I'm going to pull up the pages out of IMMORTAL where Adam tells GAbby that there were, like a dozen Hunters surrounding them when Darroc found them in Atlanta.


Two things i tripped over:

1.)
Quote:
But there is also that really clear reference to his problems being near Christian relics. So I really can't figure it out.
i dont remember that in the books. not saying it didnt happen but dont remember it. i have only reread each of them once, so you got the edge on me lol but i will correct that soon enough. All i remember is him mentioning the spear and Christ. and that Christ was already dead before they stabbed him with the spear.. so there was nothing extraordinary that stood out to me. well nothing related to this anyway. i have other questions involving the spear but this isnt the place for them.


The Part that contains JB's discomfort level with Christian relics is when they are at O'Bannion's, and he's there in a room filled with pictures of the Madonna and child and other Catholic relics and Mac notices that 90% of JB seemed to be focussed elsewhere, and he was diminished somehow - paler and uncomfortable. I'll pull up the pages for this too.

[claudia celestial girl]

page 182. This page describes JB's reaction to being in the same room with Rocky O'Bannion and a bunch of bibles, pictures of Madonna and child, and other christian relics:

I was surprised to notice that Barrons didn't look much more comfortable than i ...Nothing disturbed JB, yet I oculd clearly see tension in the angles of his body and strain in the lines of his face ... even seemed a little pale beneath that exotic golden skin... at the moment he seemed ... diminished, and I go the sudden weird impression that 99% pf him was currently focused somewhere else, and being nearly used up, leaving only 1% her and now, in this room, paying attention to RB.

[claudia celestial girl]

page 156. Gabby and Adam are in Scotland driving along and Gabby asks:

"Why didn't Darroc just kill us?"

page 157: Adam

".. he didn't bother to conceal himself this time with teh Feth Fiada becaseu he wanted me to see him and hear him..."

page 158

"... I didn't think he'd dare bring forth more Hunters. There's no way he would have been able to find us so quickly with only the 4 hunters you saw with him in Cincinatti. But he summoned more."

How many more?"

"You don't want to know," When he'd turned her in his arms to face him, he'd been looking over her shoulder. A full score of hunters had mnaterialized right behind her. Crammed wing to dark wing, looming over her. He'd neve seen so many hunters together in one place outside of their Unseelie prison.


So these passages imply that Darroc, and the other Fae, in order to keep Adam from seeing them, used the Feth Fiada to conceal his (their) presence while he was in Human form, except when he wanted ADam to see him, and then Adam had no problem, though he was in human form.
_________________________________________________

JB, of course, can see past Fae glamour. But I am not convinced that this is because JB is Fae. I guess I'm saying that JB


sees the fae
this does not make him part of the Sidhe-seer community; separate from the Sidhe-seers, but still with the ability to see the Fae
is a human being gifted with the ability to see the Fae - likely this ability has something to do with his sorcerer's ability.


This is not a complete explanation of JB by any means. I'm just saying that I believe he is NOT REQUIRED to be Fae just because he sees the Fae. The discussion of Adam's abilities while human is not necessarily relevant to JB.

Other humans (sorcerers) who have seen the Fae?:

The Draghar
Cian

[BlueCoyote]

page 182. This page describes JB's reaction to being in the same room with Rocky O'Bannion and a bunch of bibles, pictures of Madonna and child, and other christian relics:

i remember that now. i assumed he was having a sort of out of body experience lol :snick:

[TXIrish]

page 182. This page describes JB's reaction to being in the same room with Rocky O'Bannion and a bunch of bibles, pictures of Madonna and child, and other christian relics:

Hmmm, I just thought he had his attention focused elsewhere, almost as if he was trying to find (sense) something else. Now that you mention it, didn't he stay out of the graveyard he had Mac walking through until she stumbled on the Rhino-boy and screamed? :skeptical:

[iswela]

When I read DF and BF I had only read To tame a Highland warrior and beyond the highland Mist and I thought that JB might be the Devil lol. He was uncomfortable with christian relics, he knows the underground, the talk about lost soul, the beast in his basement, there where a couple other things too but I can't think of them right now. of course now that I have read all of them I don't think he is anymore, but just thought I would share. I do hope he ends up being a good guy. or course I won't mind seeing Mac with a Mackelter, but someone said Christian is getting his own book, so I am out of luck there

[iswela]

In some what support of the OP the first time Ryoden was introduced in the fever series I thought he was the gyspies leader that Hawk talked to in Beyond the Highland mist,but when I went back to check the name is a little different but I had a feeling when reading BTHM that there was more to the gyspy (sp) then we got to learn. it sounded like he had been around a lot longer then humanily possible, at least to me.

[aprilmm]

Here's my thinking:
QA got the theif to steal from Lucan. Didn't they say at the end of either IH or SOTH that she was pulling a few threads & one was a theif was breaking into a place in London? (I'm almost to the end of IH & I'll b re-reading SOTH next, so I'm not sure of the specs, sorry). Also I'm not sure that Cian could use Voice from inside the mirror, just that he was able to pull objects in/out. Does it say somewhere that he could?

I don't think JB & TLM are working together in any way. It just doesn't seem to work for me, sorry. (Maybe I just want JB to b a good guy all the way, who knows lol). Here's why:
*JB didn't know about the mirrors (sifting silvers) being at TLM's house
*he knew nothing about Alina & or even that a Null existed (he thought they were a myth). Being that her & Mac look so much alike, why would he try to send Mac away when they first meet instead of trying to reel her in. Alina had photo albums & surely had some pics of Mac in there that he would have seen.
*He was confident he'd come out of Malluce's alive - didn't he freeze his accounts/funds or something like that to make sure he'd make it out & told Malluce this & that the only way he'd regain control is when JB left??
*JB doesn't think TLM killed Alina because (after finding out about her from Mac) he knows TLM needs her to find OOPS just like he needs Mac to find them & why would he give that up.

On JB being a sidhe-seer. Doesn't Dani tell Mac that there are no male sidhe-seers & never have been. (I think this was there 2nd meeting)
I may be wrong, but these are my guesses. I can't wait to read FF to see how many blanks can be filled in for us.

[claudia celestial girl]

Here's my thinking:
QA got the theif to steal from Lucan. Didn't they say at the end of either IH or SOTH that she was pulling a few threads & one was a theif was breaking into a place in London? (I'm almost to the end of IH & I'll b re-reading SOTH next, so I'm not sure of the specs, sorry). Also I'm not sure that Cian could use Voice from inside the mirror, just that he was able to pull objects in/out. Does it say somewhere that he could?

I don't think JB & TLM are working together in any way. It just doesn't seem to work for me, sorry. (Maybe I just want JB to b a good guy all the way, who knows lol). Here's why:
*JB didn't know about the mirrors (sifting silvers) being at TLM's house
*he knew nothing about Alina & or even that a Null existed (he thought they were a myth). Being that her & Mac look so much alike, why would he try to send Mac away when they first meet instead of trying to reel her in. Alina had photo albums & surely had some pics of Mac in there that he would have seen.
*He was confident he'd come out of Malluce's alive - didn't he freeze his accounts/funds or something like that to make sure he'd make it out & told Malluce this & that the only way he'd regain control is when JB left??
*JB doesn't think TLM killed Alina because (after finding out about her from Mac) he knows TLM needs her to find OOPS just like he needs Mac to find them & why would he give that up.

On JB being a sidhe-seer. Doesn't Dani tell Mac that there are no male sidhe-seers & never have been. (I think this was there 2nd meeting)
I may be wrong, but these are my guesses. I can't wait to read FF to see how many blanks can be filled in for us.
I was reading from one of KMM's deleted scenes that Cian ponders that he could use Voice to over a limited range while in the mirror, but that it didn't seem to work on Jesse. He's inside the mirror when he says this. So that's where i got the idea, but it didn't take too long for me to realize that it doesn't read that way in the published book.

I agree with most of your points - Except - and this is what made me think of it in the first place, that Mac clearly states in BF that she would find out later that nothing was as it seemed that night, and that JB knew he'd come out of Malluce's alive and not because he had Malluce by the proverbial fiscal balls. Sooooo I just wondered if the person that JB was working with was in fact TLM.

[Kre8ed]

The Immortal Highlander the walls were weakend by the double D's holding off on the ritual for Adam Black, The Queen mentions some others getting past the walls... I am definitely going to need to re-read them ALL again!

[Kre8ed]

Yes- I get your point. But wait - Adam did see the Hunters, didn't he? He saw them when they were in the room with him in Atlanta. OK - that was because Darroc allowed it, Darroc wanted Adam to see him.

Yeah - I'm not saying I can explain everything. Just gut feelings.

JB is clearly a male Sidhe-seer. However I'm not sure how much he is aware of. He seems to not be aware that the shadows are learning emotion. He can't see the Spear (??? - he couldn't pick it out from O'Bannion's lair). He can see the Grey Man (and it can see him). And he knows ooodle's about them. Including tons about the Unseelie. I'm willing to bet that he knows more about the Unseelie than any MacKeltar, including Cian. (Except maybe Dageus post-Draghar). I"m just more willing to bet that his knowledge & sight is because of his being an ancient sorcerer than being Fae or half-Fae. I'm willing to bet that he was around when the Fae first came. You know that I was convinced for a while that he'd made a deal with the god that the Draghar dragged into their conflict with the Fae - the one that gave them to power to challenge the Tuatha De. If there are gods with power out there in the KMM universe, who can challenge the Tuatha De and empower human sorcerers, then there are powers out there that can enable JB to 'see' the Fae and interact with them.
He did see them because Darroc allowed himself and the Hunters to be seen... Darroc was toying with Adam and didn't realize that he could still sift small distances.

[Kre8ed]

Two things i tripped over:

1.)
i dont remember that in the books. not saying it didnt happen but dont remember it. i have only reread each of them once, so you got the edge on me lol but i will correct that soon enough. All i remember is him mentioning the spear and Christ. and that Christ was already dead before they stabbed him with the spear.. so there was nothing extraordinary that stood out to me. well nothing related to this anyway. i have other questions involving the spear but this isnt the place for them.

2.)
that part is confusing.... he knows of the spear... knows what it can do... knows where it is... but he couldnt point and say "there it is" regardless of his inability of sensing it.
i mean that makes as much sense as... like.... knowing for a fact there is a can of baked beans in your cupboard but you cant tell them from a tin of tuna fish, canned corn, or black eyed peas. eh?
he knew the spear was in there, or did he know there was weapon in there?
he got it just for Mac.. but he didnt know what he was getting?
I thought he could see it (the spear) but he can't sense it like Mac does. and he is reluctant to touch it. OMG I am so going to have to start re-reading. you ladies are not good for an A.D.D. girls head!!

[Anita]

You know those are some interesting theories. I never thought of JZB possibly being a werewolf. Hmm.

[aprilmm]

[QUOTE=aprilmm;231127]Here's my thinking:
QA got the theif to steal from Lucan. Didn't they say at the end of either IH or SOTH that she was pulling a few threads & one was a theif was breaking into a place in London? (I'm almost to the end of IH & I'll b re-reading SOTH next, so I'm not sure of the specs, sorry). Also I'm not sure that Cian could use Voice from inside the mirror, just that he was able to pull objects in/out. Does it say somewhere that he could?

I found the part I was talking about for this. (I brought my books w me this time ha ha) pg. 2 from SOTH where QA is in the catacombs w Adam & Gabby but is "concealed by countless layers of illusion, beyond any Sidhe-seer's vision, beyond even her own race's perception" reflecting on what's just happened. It says "She'd pulled a thread here, tugged a thread there, and the infintisimal changes she sought had begun. Somewhere in Tibet an ancient sorcerer was seekeing the unholiest of Dark Hallows. Somewhere in London a theif was casing a wealthy residence reputed to contain unimaginable treasures within."

[Anita]

OH thanks!

[BlueCoyote]

[QUOTE]

I found the part I was talking about for this. (I brought my books w me this time ha ha) pg. 2 from SOTH where QA is in the catacombs w Adam & Gabby but is "concealed by countless layers of illusion, beyond any Sidhe-seer's vision, beyond even her own race's perception" reflecting on what's just happened. It says "She'd pulled a thread here, tugged a thread there, and the infintisimal changes she sought had begun. Somewhere in Tibet an ancient sorcerer was seekeing the unholiest of Dark Hallows. Somewhere in London a theif was casing a wealthy residence reputed to contain unimaginable treasures within."


so i suppose we'll find out later about Tibet..(or was that already mentioned?).. obviously it wasnt there.

[bap7249]

[QUOTE]

I found the part I was talking about for this. (I brought my books w me this time ha ha) pg. 2 from SOTH where QA is in the catacombs w Adam & Gabby but is "concealed by countless layers of illusion, beyond any Sidhe-seer's vision, beyond even her own race's perception" reflecting on what's just happened. It says "She'd pulled a thread here, tugged a thread there, and the infintisimal changes she sought had begun. Somewhere in Tibet an ancient sorcerer was seekeing the unholiest of Dark Hallows. Somewhere in London a theif was casing a wealthy residence reputed to contain unimaginable treasures within."

"Somewhere in Tibet an ancient sorcerer was seeking the unholiest of Dark Hallows."

I believe that QueenA is talking about JZB as the ancient sorcerer looking for the DarkBook...bap7249

[claudia celestial girl]

[QUOTE=aprilmm;234267][INDENT]

"Somewhere in Tibet an ancient sorcerer was seekeing the unholiest of Dark Hallows."

I believe that QueenA is talking about JZB as the ancient sorcerer looking for the DarkBook...bap7249
I TOTALLY believe this to be true - that the 'ancient sorcerer' was JZB. But many other readers believe that the ancient sorcerer was, in fact, Lucan. In SPELL it says that Lucan was out of the country at the time of the theft, and so most people believe that Lucan was the ancient sorcerer, searching for the book in Tibet.

But I'm thinking that JZB is more ancienter than Lucan. And also that SPELL did not specify where Lucan was. I mean it makes sense that when the Draghar were dispensed with, that the thief was able to break in when the wards were down, and that Lucan wasn't there. But it doesn't have to mean that Lucan was in Tibet, does it? ;-)

[Anita]

You know, it also doesn't specify the time Lucan is in does it?

[BlueCoyote]

what do you mean by time? like he was time traveling? hmmmm

i dont remember, but i think it kinda did specify where Lucan was..... at some point. it was just a blip on the page though..... good thing i like this book the most because i will have to go back and find it lol