Who/What is Barrons?

[Tammerao]

So, when I read that we had a new board I was thrilled – until I read that the posts were lost. I was really enjoying reading all of the theories and plot discussions. Now I get to start one myself. So back to the fun…
What/Who is Barrons???
I don’t know if this was brought up on the previous board but has anyone given much heed to the fact that Barrons describes himself as “Basque and Celt. Pict to be precise” (in my book this is on page 68) I don’t see a modern saying this- more like “oh, me… yeah… I’m Scottish and German” or something like that. As with all of Karen’s books I didn’t pick this up until the second time I read it. Now I am going back through and looking for more details.
So… Ladies ( and Gentlemen) let us resume all forms of speculation in anticipation of October!!!!!!!!

[claudia celestial girl]

HI!

I love your question. I don't have an answer. I'll just list below some of my thoughts on the matter:

1) My gut feeling is that JB is not a vampire, though I don't have any concrete reason for saying so. I do think his remarks about Malluce are hilarious - calling him the 'undead ****' - as if he is resentful about Malluce's claim to be a vampire. It's as if he resents Malluce claiming to be undead, when JB himself might be undead for some reason.

2) I looked carefully to coordinate JB sightings with full moon appearances, and it looks like JB is out and about, and his 'normal' self during the full moon. So I'm not convinced that he is a werewolf.

3) HOWEVER - someone else noted that even his car is a 'wolf,' he has 'issues' with daylight (like he has never been seen in daylight unless underground or inside a big warehouse).

4) he has 'issues' with religious relics. I'm convinced in the scene at O'Bannion's place, where he's inside the room with all the Madonna and child relics & etc, that he was 'far away' because all that stuff makes him uncomfortable and/or diminishes his power.

5) I have the gut feeling that he is Ancient with a capital 'A.' His 'Bascque & Pict' comment is one of the clues, I think. Like you say - who would say that in today's age? And I think a lot about Mac's first impression of him - that surely he was 'spawned by some cataclismic event of nature.'

I'm convinced that KMM is going to tease us with this unmercifully until the end of the series. ;-)

:49:

[terri]

J.B. , could be anyone at this point. I believe that he is part Druid , if not all. I believe that he is related to the Sinclairs. They were mentioned in "Immortal"
. Another theory is that he is working for the Unseelie king. He may be his new "Vengeance", you know,told to play a part. But I could be wrong on that, since his old "Vengeance" was cold and he definitely has some warm feelings toward Mac. I cannot wait for Bloodfever. It will give us something more to chew on.

[Cheryle]

All great theories ladies, I have no idea what he is either, other than I am convinced he is cursed whatever he is. I agree with you Claudia, we are going to be teased and I am not even sure when we will find out. For all we know we won't find out until book 4.

[claudia celestial girl]

I just had lunch with a friend who suggested JB might be a 'good vampire,' like Angel from Buffy. It's funny to contemplate. It would make his interactions with Malluce (Johnstone) that much funnier. I also have logged in the back of my mind the fact that when he woke Mac at the Clarin House at 2 am, he grabbed her and did something funny, tracing the vein in her neck with his tongue - like he knew where those veins were.

Well, I'm still not sure I'm ready to believe he is a vampire, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Ailleagan]

I'm reading Immortal AGAIN. And I notice more and more each time I read it...
1.) Adam confesses giving Grimm's family line a "fae gift" to help them survive...will this prove to be another connection somewhere? are there more gifts given to other families...could JB be part of one of these families?
2.) When Adam mentioned that his race could travel back through time, he also mentioned he knew of only one race that was said to be able to not only travel backwards...but FORWARDS in time. However, he said he was skeptical of their existance. How great would it be if JB was one of these?! Or will we learn about one of them?

[Cheryle]

I just had lunch with a friend who suggested JB might be a 'good vampire,' like Angel from Buffy. It's funny to contemplate. It would make his interactions with Malluce (Johnstone) that much funnier. I also have logged in the back of my mind the fact that when he woke Mac at the Clarin House at 2 am, he grabbed her and did something funny, tracing the vein in her neck with his tongue - like he knew where those veins were.

Well, I'm still not sure I'm ready to believe he is a vampire, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


OMG Claudia I totally did not remember that until you mentioned it. Hmmm then what is in the basement?

[Cheryle]

I'm reading Immortal AGAIN. And I notice more and more each time I read it...
1.) Adam confesses giving Grimm's family line a "fae gift" to help them survive...will this prove to be another connection somewhere? are there more gifts given to other families...could JB be part of one of these families?
2.) When Adam mentioned that his race could travel back through time, he also mentioned he knew of only one race that was said to be able to not only travel backwards...but FORWARDS in time. However, he said he was skeptical of their existance. How great would it be if JB was one of these?! Or will we learn about one of them?

That would be cool and it goes along the lines of what Fiona said when the found out Mac was a null. About JB knowing that some myths are true.

[Sue71]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but not the books. :D

And let me say right up front that it's killing me waiting for the other books! About JB, I was reading this last night and I'm just not sure. He had blood on his hand that Mac noticed, he is extra strong, strong enough to throw the vampire across the room. And we know that he is very familiar with the underground tunnels. He could use them during the day. Ack! I want to know! I am really bummed that I missed the booklet with the first 3 chapters, but I also know that it would have left me just wanting more. :th_duhhhh-vi: If I had the complete series in my possession right now I would hole up until the last page was read. :th_goingtobed-vi:

[Zebby]

Ok this just hit me while I was napping this afternoon about barrons! Remember Adam has a half fae half mortal son, now I don't think Barrons is him, but more then one fae could have had a kid with a mortal woman! I think Barrons might be half fae half human! Because I remember
1: Adam's son had the ability to live in whatever century he wanted and he could go back and forth
2: If he's half fae then he's probably beautiful like Adam which would cover barrons being handsome
3: Adam said something about giving his son the immortal elixor would make him cold hearted evenutally like the fae and that would alot like barrons.
4: He wears a cuff that keeps him safe from those unseelie as if he's protected by the fae and he would be if he was one of their kids
5: He would be able to see the fae most likely if he was half fae and communicate with them such as V'Lane.

What do you all think??

[claudia celestial girl]

Good thinking, Zebby! I totally forgot that JB wears a cuff.

The only problem I see with it is that Mac, as a Null, can freeze a Fae. But we don't know how Mac's powers affect a half-Fae.

And your theory still doesn't explain why Barrons seems to think he is damned (check the newsletters for 'teasers' that say something about this. The best teaser for this is the first one, I think). Well, Barrons could be half-Fae and damned anyway. ;-)

BTW - I was wondering something. In Immortal, Adam banishes his elixir to a 'place' where he hopes no one will find it. Gulp! This is on page 329, when he finally gets a clue about a soul and its relevance to humans. It says that he hoped it would do no harm in the place where he consigned it... What if Darroc got his hands on that vial??

[Cheryle]

I love the theory Zebby only one thing gets in the way of that for me or at least of JB being Adams kid. When a fae impregnates a mortal woman they feel that bond.

However JB being some other faes child is awesome!!!

[angelia]

I think when JB got his first look at Mac, he knew she was the one. He took her credit card and license to find out information about her. Maybe he was trying to send her home to be safe until he could claim her. He came to her room a 2:00 am and I think he tasted her to find out if she was the one. I read in another novel where the people changed to wolves, they offer their mates there throats. I don't think JB could resist, he was trying to scare her and send her home but he just needed to know. Maybe finding his true love will break his curse. Any way I am about to pull my hair out with the what if game.

[MaryKate]

I dont know if this theory has already been brought up, but what if JB is Lisa and Circeen's child? They are both immortal; and it explains JB's speed, gift of languages and healing as well as him not touching the spearhead because it could kill him since he is part fae. I don't know if Mac would still be able to freeze him even though he is only part fae? Another thing to think about is whether or not him be part fea makes him immune to the Shades? I dont know. Something to be think about. :th_goingtobed-vi:

Night all.

[Sue71]

Oh, now I like that theory! I'm not even sure of all the choices there could be. Has there been mention of werewolves? I don't remember. I need to find this scene again that I remember but when she is thinking of how fast he is she mentions how it is like "an animal". So werewolf came to mind but that wouldn't explain his ability to see Fae, but it would cover his ability to leap tall buildings, :anim_rolleyes-vi: his speed and strength.
You don't think we'll have to wait until the end of the series to find out do you? Because I just might cry...

[MaryKate]

We are such smart ladies that we could come up with plausible explinations for anything. The question is are any of these explinations what Karen is thinking...hmmmm.

Claudia~ Great minds think alike. I didnt realize that we are thinking something greatly similar with JB being part fae and a decendant of Adam....You think son....I think grandson....close enough. You also did say something about not knowing if Mac being a Null can freeze a part fae....Hmmmmmm Maybe we are on to something. Way to go with thinking alike. HAHA. :)

[claudia celestial girl]

I hate to be a party pooper, but I have to fess up to not being completely on-board with the idea that JB might be part Fae.


I didnt realize that we are thinking something greatly similar with JB being part fae and a decendant of Adam

I certainly do NOT agree that he is a descendant of Adam. No way. Adam would know (as someone pointed out).

There's just no proof of anything. I think there is evidence that JB is NOT a werewolf (look at the full-moon thing). I can't decide if he is a vampire or not. JB certainly seems to have a lot of connections with the Fae, and know a lot about them. I like Zebby's idea that he wears a Fae cuff as protection.

I"ll tell you what I really think.

1) JB is a Druid
2) JB is Ancient (that would explain, coupled with #1, his knowledge of the Fae)
3) He is cursed - possibly because of being associated with the 13 (from DARK? - wanting knowledge that he 'traded' something for??)

If he is a vampire, he's a lot older than Malluce. And has fewer issues with self-worship. (no cult-following, etc). Being a vampire IS being cursed. That would explain his aversion to religious relics & daylight. But JB has a heart - buried underneath all that coldness and arrogance. And I secretly have this idea that he was cursed by an ancient force/god/power, something that KMM has only hinted at in her universe. I think he is hoping that by getting his hands on the Dark Book he can undo his curse.

ps Great Minds DO Think Alike! ... or not, as the case may be! ;-) We are all great minds here, though. I love chatting with you gals.

[claudia celestial girl]

You know, at the end of DF when the Lord Master (Darroc) looked at JB - hard? The Fae all know about Adam's son (Adam is proud of that). I got the feeling in that scene that neither Darroc nor any other Fae knew who JB was. He took them all by surprise.

I thought it was telling that JB was willing to reveal himself for Mac's sake. ;-) :anim_naughty-vi: :2v-vi:

[ILUVNURDS]

This may have been mentioned prior, but could Barrons and Mac be the two last warriors the queen of the Tuatha De mentioned she needed in Spell of the Highlander? Just a thought.

– Sarah

[claudia celestial girl]

I would cast my vote that JB is one of them. Do you think he might be the 'Ancient Druid' that the queen mentions at the beginning of Spell?

[JOJO]

Good lord you lasses have been busy. I have not been away from the board that long have I? LOL
OK I think that JB is at least part druid. I think that the weird feeling Mac gets when she is around him is the whole MINE thing like the McKeltars feel.
The thought that JB is a vampire is damn sexy. If JB is a vampire that might swing me over to his side.
As far as him being half fae, didn't Adam say that Circen was the only half fae to live to adulthood?

[claudia celestial girl]

didn't Adam say that Circen was the only half fae to live to adulthood?

good point, JoJo. He did say that.

[MaryKate]

As far as him being half fae, didn't Adam say that Circen was the only half fae to live to adulthood?


This is true, but I don't think that included Lisa and Circeen's son when Adam said this because he wasn't born yet. And wouldn't their son be immortal since both Lisa and Circeen are?

That is part of the reason why I think JB might be their son since Circeen was the original protector of the hallows. Maybe if JB is Circeen's son he is trying to pick up where is father left off. Maybe the hallows got lost and he is trying to regain them. That might be why he was so shocked/upset when he didn't recognize the spear. I dont know. This is just speculation.

The unfortunate thing is that I dont think we will truely find out who/what JB is until one of the last books. We shall see come October I guess.

[JOJO]

This is true, but I don't think that included Lisa and Circeen's son when Adam said this because he wasn't born yet. And wouldn't their son be immortal since both Lisa and Circeen are?

That is part of the reason why I think JB might be their son since Circeen was the original protector of the hallows. Maybe if JB is Circeen's son he is trying to pick up where is father left off. Maybe the hallows got lost and he is trying to regain them. That might be why he was so shocked/upset when he didn't recognize the spear. I dont know. This is just speculation.

The unfortunate thing is that I dont think we will truely find out who/what JB is until one of the last books. We shall see come October I guess.

Hi Mary Kate. Lisa and Circeen are no longer immortal, Adam took them to the queen at the end of Immortal and had it undone.
I have no idea why Circeen no longer had the hollows. And remeber a half fae is not born immortal Adam made Circeen immortal because you can not be immortal and have a soul.

[MaryKate]

Lisa and Circeen are no longer immortal

Hmmm....I didn't remember that. Its been quite awhile since I've read Immortal. I just started rereading all of the books last week and I haven't gotten that far because of work. That blew my theory out of the water. HAHA. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Boadicea]

Hi gang,first time here.I used to post at the old KMM boards when they were first started & became a lurker for several reasons,but now Leiha has talked me into posting once more to share some theories.Forgive me if I'm stumbling around,I've never used this type of board,and I have a bunch of scattered notes regarding Darkfever & the Bloodfever booklet & excerpts.So if I rehash something already said,sorry.

Anyways,about the shades.I had the most insane thought-Barrons' vault three floors below the
garage!
> Since Mac wonders,and we all still do,LOL,about how JB can possibly
walk
> through the Shades in total darkness,he either has some sort of
control over
> them or is something they fear greatly.A subterranean vault would
have no
> light,especially with all the garage windows blacked out three floors
> above.And although there could be electricity run to it,JB has no
need of
> it,since he can apparently go strolling through the abandoned 'hood
in utter
> blackness,and perch on the roof of a two story building with no
apparent way
> to climb it.(gray Man's death scene)And I am really thinking about
> Mac's idea about the store being a weapon-the way JB simply killed
the
> lights,ensuring death for O'Bannion & his gang.
>
> When DF first came out,I remember some of the girls on the DF board
> speculating that JB was the Unseelie King.Possible,but not
probable,IMHO.I
> think him & V'lane being the same person is much more likely,although
I have
> seen plenty of holes in my theory about that during a re-read.If
V'lane
> was the one who killed the lights to let the Shades at her in BF,just
so he
> could "save" her,then he knew they were close by,and how convenient
to wait
> until she's asleep,then unlock the vault...if it's YOUR vault & your
"other"
> name is Jericho Barrons,LOL

[claudia celestial girl]

I soooo love this theory!


I think him & V'lane being the same person is much more likely,although I have seen plenty of holes in my theory about that during a re-read.

BTW - Hello! Pleased to meet you!

I can't even tell you how much I love this theory. Unfortunately I really feel that JB ad V'Lane are emotionally different. I can't agree with it. But I LOVE it! I wish it were true, it would explain a lot. (I read this goofy theory on Amazon that V'Lane and Queen Abby were 'obviously' the same person, and it was about kinky sex. :th_duhhhh-vi:)

I love the idea of JB knowing that she'd met V'Lane because he'd 'met' her as V'Lane.

I remember reading DF for the first time and thinking that Barrons Books and Baubles was a strange building - little (like a coffee house) on the outside but enormous on the inside -obviously an enchanted place. ( I have to make sure I don't say too much, since this is not the BF room). And I really like the idea of it being a weapon too.

I'm glad you're out of 'lurkdom.' post more often. I love your theories! :2v-vi:

[Cheryle]

I am with you and Claudia, I think JB is one of the Warriors needed by the Queen, I think we will meet others and I think another may be yet another MacKeltar.

[Cheryle]

Hey Boadicea glad to see you over here. I love your theory the JB and V'Lane are one in the same. It would explain why JB knows when Mac has been with V'Lane.

[Angela]

The boy's name Jericho \j(e)-ri-cho\ is pronounced JARE-a-koh. It is of Arabic origin, and its meaning is "city of the moon".

The boy's name Baron \b(a)-ron\ is pronounced BARE-an. It is of Old German and Old English origin, and its meaning is "young warrior". A title of nobility, along the lines of Earl and Duke, used as a given name. In England, a baron was the lowest rank of hereditary peerage that entitles the holder to serve in the House of Lords. It is rare to find such nobility names in countries where there is an official aristocracy. Also the Hebrew phrase "Bar Aaron", meaning "son of Aaron".

he boy's name Aaron \a(a)-ron\ is pronounced AIR-an, AHR-an. It is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "mountain of strength". From the Hebrew "har-on", or possibly of Egyptian origin. Biblical: Moses' brother Aaron was the first high priest of Israel.


Also a fun little tid bit. I love when cool things happen by chance. You can find a publisher with the name Barrons and an Author by the name of Jericho.

See: Barron's Booknotes by Jeremy Jericho

Now that is a sexy coincidence, Huh! To quote Paris "That's Hot" If only...Giggle with joy!

[Jennifer]

It's true that Adam did sire a half-fae son with a mortal, that mortal was Morganna....However it could not be JB, because that son is Circenn. Morganna was Circenn's mother and his father is Adam, so that isn't possible, right? Or did I totally miss something along the way, I just re-read Touch today, because I was curious, and it was just as I remembered. So, Adam only has one half-fae son.

[miss lulu]

HI!
2) I looked carefully to coordinate JB sightings with full moon appearances, and it looks like JB is out and about, and his 'normal' self during the full moon. So I'm not convinced that he is a werewolf.

I'm convinced that KMM is going to tease us with this unmercifully until the end of the series. ;-)

:49:

I agree 100%

JB is not a vampire or wolf, but I know McCabe is a wolf. McCabe on page 124 says to JB "Almost a full moon, Barrons. Things can get dangerous out here"

JB could be a Druid, but I think that is too simple. I think Karen is going to make an all new type of being with JB.

Also, his name....has anyone looked it up? Jericho is an ancient city. Could he have lived there at one point?

[Cheryle]

I agree 100%

JB is not a vampire or wolf, but I know McCabe is a wolf. McCabe on page 124 says to JB "Almost a full moon, Barrons. Things can get dangerous out here"

JB could be a Druid, but I think that is too simple. I think Karen is going to make an all new type of being with JB.

Also, his name....has anyone looked it up? Jericho is an ancient city. Could he have lived there at one point?

Love that theory on McCabe. I so agree with you on JB he can't be something we expect.

[*Jo*]

HI!

I love your question. I don't have an answer. I'll just list below some of my thoughts on the matter:

1) My gut feeling is that JB is not a vampire, though I don't have any concrete reason for saying so. I do think his remarks about Malluce are hilarious - calling him the 'undead ****' - as if he is resentful about Malluce's claim to be a vampire. It's as if he resents Malluce claiming to be undead, when JB himself might be undead for some reason.

2) I looked carefully to coordinate JB sightings with full moon appearances, and it looks like JB is out and about, and his 'normal' self during the full moon. So I'm not convinced that he is a werewolf.

3) HOWEVER - someone else noted that even his car is a 'wolf,' he has 'issues' with daylight (like he has never been seen in daylight unless underground or inside a big warehouse).

4) he has 'issues' with religious relics. I'm convinced in the scene at O'Bannion's place, where he's inside the room with all the Madonna and child relics & etc, that he was 'far away' because all that stuff makes him uncomfortable and/or diminishes his power.

5) I have the gut feeling that he is Ancient with a capital 'A.' His 'Bascque & Pict' comment is one of the clues, I think. Like you say - who would say that in today's age? And I think a lot about Mac's first impression of him - that surely he was 'spawned by some cataclismic event of nature.'

I'm convinced that KMM is going to tease us with this unmercifully until the end of the series. ;-)

:49:
Thanks for giving me much insight & logic. I have a theory and you've just supported a large portion of what I've been working on. Since I don't have one of the teasers, I have to wait for my source to supply the rest. I wish I could add the HAPPY DANCE guy at this point, SNIFF !

[Steph]

I don't know about most of you but I just feel a feeling about barrons that he has to be fighting on the side of good, I just liked him from the start. I think he has to be part druid since he was the one helping to heal mac at the end of the book. I do think the sparks between them means like the Mckelters mate (at least i hope so) He has saved her on so many levels and he does his best to protect her, I don't think it all has to do with her being his own little opp detector. I thought maybe he was a vamp but i just don't know I am more leaning to the race that adam said his kind heard of but he didn't believe they really were real. I'm not sure I just can't wait to get my next book........:happy0194:

[Cheryle]

I don't know about most of you but I just feel a feeling about barrons that he has to be fighting on the side of good, I just liked him from the start. I think he has to be part druid since he was the one helping to heal mac at the end of the book. I do think the sparks between them means like the Mckelters mate (at least i hope so) He has saved her on so many levels and he does his best to protect her, I don't think it all has to do with her being his own little opp detector. I thought maybe he was a vamp but i just don't know I am more leaning to the race that adam said his kind heard of but he didn't believe they really were real. I'm not sure I just can't wait to get my next book........:happy0194:

Steph I so agree with you that Barrons has to be on the side of good, I also liked him from the beginning. He is also droolworthy. :drool-vi:

[Sue71]

I don't know about most of you but I just feel a feeling about barrons that he has to be fighting on the side of good, I just liked him from the start. I think he has to be part druid since he was the one helping to heal mac at the end of the book. I do think the sparks between them means like the Mckelters mate (at least i hope so) He has saved her on so many levels and he does his best to protect her, I don't think it all has to do with her being his own little opp detector. I thought maybe he was a vamp but i just don't know I am more leaning to the race that adam said his kind heard of but he didn't believe they really were real. I'm not sure I just can't wait to get my next book........:happy0194:

About what Adam said about the race he didn't think existed? That's exactly what I first thought of last night when I was re-reading Adam's book! It really made me wonder.

[Chakacool]

I was just searching what it meant to be Pict on wikipedia... and it does correlate some to how Barron's acts and speaks. I've only had the opportunity to read the excerpt on the webpage and not the first three chapters so pardon, you may know something I don't....

But someone said Barron's was ancient and I'm beginning to agree.

1. Picts inhabited what today is Scotland and were there from Roman times up to the 10th century. I don't think he can be Fae purely because he is Pict. He had a birthplace, an origin. Adam never had that...he came from a different world entirely all the Fae did.

2. In the excerpt English is his 5th language.

3. He has some connection to the fae and it's royalty, because of the arm bands and torque he wears and how he's able to move amoungst the unseelie.

4. V'lane ... now wouldn't it be interesting if the two of them were family?The could be half-brothers, or some other distant relation... same mother(human) or something?? Since at the moment (I don't know) if V'lane is Seelie or Unseelie...we don't know where his connections are. But the fact that V'lane told Barrons that he'd met Mac, means they're close in some way or another and half a significant amount of trust there.
I do NOT believe that V'lane and Barrons are the same... point in case - Barrons couldn't touch Mac, she's a null. She would have frozen him and V'lane was smart enough not to get in touching distance of Mac...not likely that they're the same.

5. I think he is wise to the world in a way a Druid is. I agree with that but, I think Barron's might have had a MacKelter like moment by being brought forward. There is talk of the Queen and the Fae trusting humans with special gifts and knowledge...he could be like Cian a 9th Century Druid enchanted and brought forward. Or any of the other MacKelter men, none of whom live in the century they were born. Also, given the Pict time line this would make him older than Cian or right about the same age. The Picts time ended around the 10th century...

As for him being some other type of being I'm not sure... maybe he's been give a "fae gift" or some other type of being we don't know. Only Karen knows sadly... Will you tell us Karen please.... with sugar on top :)

These are some hobbled thoughts let me know what you think???

[Cheryle]

Those are definately not hobbled thoughts. I have to agree that V'Lane and JB are close in some way because how else would JB know that Mac has been with V'Lane what you are saying makes perfect sense to me.

I have a feeling we will not find the answers to any of these questions for awhile and once we find out the answer there will be a thousand more.

[miss lulu]

Those are definately not hobbled thoughts. I have to agree that V'Lane and JB are close in some way because how else would JB know that Mac has been with V'Lane what you are saying makes perfect sense to me.

I have a feeling we will not find the answers to any of these questions for awhile and once we find out the answer there will be a thousand more.

Just a brain fart......but what happens if JB knows of V'lane but does not know him personally. What if JB was keeping a close eye on Mac? (Maybe he has a mirror like Beast from Beauty & the Beast) What I mean is, JB knows Mac is stubborn, and she'll end up doing what she wants anyway. (Her going to the house/warehouse in the dead zone area alone) I know Mac said that Fiona would rat her out, but than again would she if she were jealous?

[Cheryle]

Just a brain fart......but what happens if JB knows of V'lane but does not know him personally. What if JB was keeping a close eye on Mac? (Maybe he has a mirror like Beast from Beauty & the Beast) What I mean is, JB knows Mac is stubborn, and she'll end up doing what she wants anyway. (Her going to the house/warehouse in the dead zone area alone) I know Mac said that Fiona would rat her out, but than again would she if she were jealous?


You bring up a very interesting point there are so many other ways that we could look at this, I love your idea. Honestly, I don't think Fiona would rat Mac out sounds like you thinking on the same lines as well. I feel (this is from reading the booklet), Fiona wants Mac out of the way any way she can get her gone.

[claudia celestial girl]

Just a brain fart......but what happens if JB knows of V'lane but does not know him personally. What if JB was keeping a close eye on Mac? (Maybe he has a mirror like Beast from Beauty & the Beast) What I mean is, JB knows Mac is stubborn, and she'll end up doing what she wants anyway. (Her going to the house/warehouse in the dead zone area alone) I know Mac said that Fiona would rat her out, but than again would she if she were jealous?
Great idea! You're brilliant. Of course. That would explain why Fiona was looking embarrassed after JB came back with Mac from the warehouse. Because she Didn't Call JB, not because she called too late!

How about this scenario - JB is keeping an eye on Mac, and Fio is keeping an eye on JB. That would explain certain events in the booklet ;-) I've been asking questions about why Fio would show up when she did on Sunday. Butcher shop my ... petunia!

What a troika!

I've been wondering about that conversation between V'Lane and JB. How did it go? What did they talk about? I assumed for a long time that V'Lane & JB didn't really 'know' each other. Until JB says V'Lane told me. But then ... how did that conversation really go? Was it taunting? Or was it casual conversation? Did V'Lane try to convince JB to convince Mac to accept the cuff? (a normal, friendly thing to do) Or did V'Lane not mention it (making me wonder even more at his motives, and whether he is Unseelie).

[Sue71]

Good question, I have been wondering too how well JB and V'lane know each other, and how?
Here's another idea, it may have been mentioned but I don't remember seeing it.
Could JB be one of the five most powerful Druids that Alibheal mentions in Spell? She said she had positioned the most powerful five where she wanted them.. So far that we know of there are Drustan, Dageus and Cian. Unless we have to wait for future Highlander novels but the way things are getting very serious in the Fever books between the Seelie and UnSeelie I doubt it! I am thinking that JB could be one of the five. She called this group "Her players, her pieces on the board. More than pawns, less than kings."

[Chakacool]

Just a brain fart......but what happens if JB knows of V'lane but does not know him personally. What if JB was keeping a close eye on Mac? (Maybe he has a mirror like Beast from Beauty & the Beast) What I mean is, JB knows Mac is stubborn, and she'll end up doing what she wants anyway. (Her going to the house/warehouse in the dead zone area alone) I know Mac said that Fiona would rat her out, but than again would she if she were jealous?

I don't believe that even with her jealously she would put Mac in harms way. Fiona knows what's going on, she probably knows or has a pretty good idea what Barron's is because of their initimate relationship, but she trys to get Mac out of this by arguing on her behalf whether or not Mac actually asked for it. Her nature is good and she's on the side of what we know to be good because it's the same side Mac is on... I just think that her jealously is the reason is wasn't an immediate "JB she's left again" type of deal.

[*Jo*]

VILKACIS or VAKOLAK warrior depending upon which Balkan Is. in the Medeterrean Ocean. Based on the readings and mostly all of the great points everyone looked up, wrote, & researched.
Adam thought this mythological race did not exist...
Mac refers to JB as a man who is ruled by his inner dog...
JB states Mac is a lamb in the city of wolves...
Malluce is an undead f*uck...As angela posted yeasterday, Jericho ="city of the moon"
Barron=young warrior
Aaron= mountain of strength
Per Lavian/Baltic Folklore
It was a traditional belief a person was a vilkacis if they could assume the form of a wolf,voluntarily, involuntarily & temporarily. This idea existed in much of Europe especially in the Balkans. This folklore referred to someone transforming into a wolf like monster which could be benevolent at times.There was a specific group of young warriors of this classification: Skin walkers, Beserkers and Vilkacis aka Valkolak/ were reputed to channel the spirits of animals to enhance superior warrior strength much like wild animals. Young unwed warriors were associated with wolves. Shape sifters were similar to werewolves but seldom took the form of a wolf.
The text was adamant that the vampire was NOT included in this group of folklore.
So we do know that GRIMM is the Beserker, JB is the Vilkacis (?), damned or cursed because he needs the book as blackmail to have the curse removed (?) from who ? Unseelie or seelie ? King or queen ? What is the curse anyway ?
When one answers a question it only opens a can of worms IF the answer is indeed correct...:th_read::th_type::th_sheep::anim_bow-vi:

[Cheryle]

Dang Jo I love it girl, you have really got that thinking cap on. Now I have more to think about.

[miss lulu]

Thanks, Jo for all that helpful information!:happy0158:

.......I am going to start thinking on some of this........:brainfart-vi:

[claudia celestial girl]

a person was a vilkacis if they could assume the form of a wolf,voluntarily, involuntarily & temporarily. This idea existed in much of Europe especially in the Balkans. This folklore referred to someone transforming into a wolf like monster which could be benevolent at times.There was a specific group of young warriors of this classification: Skin walkers, Beserkers and Vilkacis aka Valkolak/ were reputed to channel the spirits of animals to enhance superior warrior strength much like wild animals.

good work Jo! Shall we start a wagering party to see if Jo is right? If Jo is right, we send her all our copies of the Booklet! ;-)

[alba]

MY Head hurt with all this Knowledge :crying-vi:.
Kidding.I love this topic I have read this 3 times today :th_read:
You guys just blow me away just when i think hey you got someone else comes up with another point....
Jo good Sher-locking there:anim_headbang-vi:anim_headbang-vi:

[Michelle*My*Belle]

Darkfever pg. 204. 5th line down.

" He had on athat heavy silver Celtic wrist cuff again that made me think of arcane chants and ancient stone circles, complemented by a black and silver torque at his throat."

Is HE VLane the prince? Or A prince?

[*Jo*]

good work Jo! Shall we start a wagering party to see if Jo is right? If Jo is right, we send her all our copies of the Booklet! ;-)
Gee thanks....A WEE late...J/K Michelle was more than kind to answer a few important questions for me...That's IF I am correct...Now I don't have to stay up at night with insomnia over THIS one...On to the next problemo...

[*Jo*]

Darkfever pg. 204. 5th line down.

" He had on athat heavy silver Celtic wrist cuff again that made me think of arcane chants and ancient stone circles, complemented by a black and silver torque at his throat."

Is HE VLane the prince? Or A prince?
Could be a damned or cursed fae of another house then like ADAM was cursed to a human.. THE Queen must have been Pee"D OFF . SO, JB is a VILKACIS damned & cursed fae...Torques only announce royalty in the houses of fae.V'lane had cuffs. THAT I remember but do not remember a torque mentioned at all...So there are only 4 houses in FAE (?), which house does JB belong ? D'Anu like Adam ? What color was the cuff & torque ?

[*Jo*]

Could be a damned or cursed fae of another house then like ADAM was cursed to a human.. THE Queen must have been Pee"D OFF . SO, JB is a VILKACIS damned & cursed fae...Torques only announce royalty in the houses of fae.V'lane had cuffs. THAT I remember but do not remember a torque mentioned at all...So there are only 4 houses in FAE (?), which house does JB belong ? D'Anu like Adam ? What color was the cuff & torque ?
Black & Silver ? Adams was not black & silver were they ?

[*Jo*]

Black & Silver ? Adams was not black & silver were they ?
Last thought before bed, PROMISE. Black UNSEELIE & Silver SEELIE/ direct line of the king & queen. Jb is their son? And damned and cursed...Made both sides mighty angry. Shades and dark things avoid him as does V'Lane with alot of animosity...THAT would enough to rock both kindoms into turmoil all by itself. So would could JB do that was so terrible to both fae kingdoms ?

[Jennifer]

Last thought before bed, PROMISE. Black UNSEELIE & Silver SEELIE/ direct line of the king & queen. Jb is their son? And damned and cursed...Made both sides mighty angry. Shades and dark things avoid him as does V'Lane with alot of animosity...THAT would enough to rock both kindoms into turmoil all by itself. So would could JB do that was so terrible to both fae kingdoms ?

Whatever he did....IF he did it.....maybe he was the one who helped or caused the walls between man and faery to come down.......and one other thing........aren't Dageus and Drustan responsible for performing the ritual of Lughnassadh, the ancient rite that was to be completed at the beginning of the feast day, to keep the walls from thinning and eventually coming down? What the h*ll happened there? I'll bet they are p*ssed!!!!!!:happy0194:

And another thing....ever wonder what came of Nell and Silvan's kids? JB? Could JB be a MacKeltar? Could he have chosen the name Jericho Barrons for himself? Or do you think JB is much more ancient? I don't know, Jo's theory sounds right on.......think I'll go with that....Jo...I am gonna sh*t if you end up being right.......

Or am I just totally off-track here? Put me in my place Jo if I am wrong!

[claudia celestial girl]

A VILKACIS or VAKOLAK warrior

OK. Sorry for being super-analytical (or anal, or whatever). I need more darta. I went to look this up on wikipedia. Here's what I found that may be relevant:

The vrykolakas variant vorvolakas, is a harmful undead creature in Greek folklore. The very word vrykolakas comes from a Slavic word, variously occurring as v?rkolak, v?lkolak, as in Bulgarian, vukodlak, as in Serbian, etc. The term is derived from ???? (vâlk)/??? (vuk), meaning "wolf" and dlaka, meaning "fur", and originally meant "werewolf" (it still has that meaning in the modern Slavic literary languages, and a similar one in Romanian: see vârcolac). However, the same word (in the form vukodlak) has come to be used in the sense of "vampire" in the folklore of Western Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Croatia and Dalmatia. While the two are very similar, blood-drinking is only marginally associated with the vrykolakas.

A vârcolac in Romanian folklore may refer to several different figures. In some versions, a vârcolac is a wolf demon, It may also reffer to a wizard that has the power to turn into a wolf for camouflage. This so-called vârcolac had magical powers that made him be feared by local men and thus calling him a demon. Other legends say it is a ghost or vampire (Strigoi) while a third group of traditions say it is a werewolf. In Romanian, vârcolac commonly means "werewolf". It can occasionally mean "goblin".

The bodies of vrykolakas have the same distinctive characteristics as the bodies of vampires in Balkan folklore. They do not decay; instead, they swell and may even attain a "drum-like" form, they are, according to one account, "fresh and gorged with new blood".

Finally here: A werewolf (also lycanthrope or wolfman) in folklore is a person who shapeshifts into a wolf or wolflike creature, either purposely, by using magic, or after being placed under a curse. Historical legends describe a wide variety of methods for becoming a werewolf, in some cases, the transformation was supposedly accomplished by Satanic allegiance for the most loathsome ends, often for the sake of sating a craving for human flesh. A distinction is often made between voluntary and involuntary werewolves. The former are generally thought to have made a pact, usually with the Devil, and morph into werewolves at night to indulge in mischievous acts. Unlike vampires, werewolves are not harmed by religious artifacts such as crucifixes and holy water. Becoming a werewolf simply by being bitten by another werewolf as a form of contagion is common in modern horror fiction, but this kind of transmission is rare in legend.

[claudia celestial girl]

More:

from wikipedia again:


"The werewolves", writes Richard Verstegan (Restitution of Decayed Intelligence, 1628), "are certayne sorcerers, who having annoynted their bodies with an ointment which they make by the instinct of the devil, and putting on a certayne inchaunted girdle, does not only unto the view of others seem as wolves, but to their own thinking have both the shape and nature of wolves, so long as they wear the said girdle.

Could JB's cuffs be similar to this 'girdle' that the sorcerer wears?

[claudia celestial girl]

yet MORE! (Now you see how truly anal I really am).

From a book I have called The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft (do NOT ask why I have such a book in my possession!)


Volkhv/Volkva - a Russian turm for pagan magician. It seems to derive from a root word for 'wolf' and so may once have indicated a wolf-shaman or werewolf.

[Jennifer]

yet MORE! (Now you see how truly anal I really am).

From a book I have called The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft (do NOT ask why I have such a book in my possession!)

Verrrry Interesting Claudia!!! Good digging!!! And I won't ask why you have such a possesion in your house.....I own a few of those myself....and many other things you would think me morbid, or strange for owning...
:anim_lolabove-vi:

:th_theyareontome-vi

[Cheryle]

Wow my head is spinning this is really early in the morning for me.

[ginaj]

My brain hurts....but it's a good hurt! :th_thud: Jo, how cool would that be if you were right?! And you just reminded me of something....I saw and ad for a movie called Skin Walkers, a term you used in your definitions....check this out....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461703/photogallery

watch the trailer!

[claudia celestial girl]

a movie called Skin Walkers

Great Trailer! This one looks really good. I'll be thinking Dark Hunters as well as JB while watching this!

[*Jo*]

OK. Sorry for being super-analytical (or anal, or whatever). I need more darta. I went to look this up on wikipedia. Here's what I found that may be relevant:

The vrykolakas variant vorvolakas, is a harmful undead creature in Greek folklore. The very word vrykolakas comes from a Slavic word, variously occurring as v?rkolak, v?lkolak, as in Bulgarian, vukodlak, as in Serbian, etc. The term is derived from ???? (vâlk)/??? (vuk), meaning "wolf" and dlaka, meaning "fur", and originally meant "werewolf" (it still has that meaning in the modern Slavic literary languages, and a similar one in Romanian: see vârcolac). However, the same word (in the form vukodlak) has come to be used in the sense of "vampire" in the folklore of Western Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Croatia and Dalmatia. While the two are very similar, blood-drinking is only marginally associated with the vrykolakas.

A vârcolac in Romanian folklore may refer to several different figures. In some versions, a vârcolac is a wolf demon, It may also reffer to a wizard that has the power to turn into a wolf for camouflage. This so-called vârcolac had magical powers that made him be feared by local men and thus calling him a demon. Other legends say it is a ghost or vampire (Strigoi) while a third group of traditions say it is a werewolf. In Romanian, vârcolac commonly means "werewolf". It can occasionally mean "goblin".

The bodies of vrykolakas have the same distinctive characteristics as the bodies of vampires in Balkan folklore. They do not decay; instead, they swell and may even attain a "drum-like" form, they are, according to one account, "fresh and gorged with new blood".

Finally here: A werewolf (also lycanthrope or wolfman) in folklore is a person who shapeshifts into a wolf or wolflike creature, either purposely, by using magic, or after being placed under a curse. Historical legends describe a wide variety of methods for becoming a werewolf, in some cases, the transformation was supposedly accomplished by Satanic allegiance for the most loathsome ends, often for the sake of sating a craving for human flesh. A distinction is often made between voluntary and involuntary werewolves. The former are generally thought to have made a pact, usually with the Devil, and morph into werewolves at night to indulge in mischievous acts. Unlike vampires, werewolves are not harmed by religious artifacts such as crucifixes and holy water. Becoming a werewolf simply by being bitten by another werewolf as a form of contagion is common in modern horror fiction, but this kind of transmission is rare in legend.
Sorry to be anal myself but if you want, I used these as references to further interpretion of JB being Vilkacis damned fae warrior.http://www.reference.com/search?q=werewolves
http://wilk.pedia.org/wiki/vilkacis
www.sacred-texts.com/goth/bw/bow09.htm
www.sacred-texts.com/neu/cfwm/cf206.htm
For every mythologist, per region certain prefixes and suffixes mean different genders. So does perspective of certain groups. On the mainland of Albania, Greece yes, the vrkolaks,brukolakas were indeed sinister..."One man's pleasure is another man's poison."
On the islands,Baltic,BASQUE(BASQUE-CELTnot PICT.History of fae had it recorded that the pict version disappeared or melded to Celt.),Ionian Islands they were viewed as animalistic, powerful, damned cursed warriors of exception power and prowess.Perhaps the seelie queen wants JB to truely believe that HE is a VILKACIS without the actual demon traits as Adam truely thought he was human...when he was stripped of most of his powers but still fae.The Seelie Queen needs an army. Period.We met her beserkers, druids w/more to come yet what is their number,Houses of fae(there numbers have not increased and therefore numbers cannot be that large. She needs a great defense to the offense.) Karen I think will introduce the Vilkacis leader WHO IS ALSO a warrior fae to controll them,and believe she will introduce shape sifters and perhaps skin walkers too. The Unseelie king has sent shades, vampires,Winged beasts, and flesh destroyers ect.ect. into Ireland so far ...Karen describes JB as Mediterranean,gypsy,Basque-Celt which actually zooms into island perspective immediately.Why would she bother otherwise. She could have just said plain werewolf. JB wears a torque & cuffs. Did Drustan, Silvan,Drustan, Dageus, or Cian have those ?!! I don't recall druids wearing torques or cuffs.Not to my knowledge. V'lane has cuffs, Adam wore a torque, gold if I remember. Last D'Anu prince if I recall.JB has one torque of silver & black and silver cuffs. He is a fae. Black is well, dark or evil, not good.Unseelie. White, platinum , white gold, silver. White. Light. Seelie. JB has to be a direct line of royalty and warrior fae cursed.King & Queen's son.Cursed same as Adam was human NOT with all the qualities associated with humans in wich they are cursed. Gabby and seelie & unseelie, fae were the only one to hear,see,taste,touch,and feel Adam.She was a seer.All the characters introduced in Darfever seem to be visible to seers & Cull seers for what these persona actually are.Humans do not. Kings & queens male offspring are usually trained warriors. Even the English monarchy now, the princes are in military. They must be trained into defense in order to prosper and protect their domain.
It might be worth your while to check into the last web. It appears as if there are 3 or four tribes of fae. Interpretation of them indicate that the fae were FOLKS of the goddess Danu or Don.,Men of divinity,Castle of Don's daughter,the Magician Gwydions battlements all making up Danu's court. It should be interesting to see if KMM incorporates these in the rest of the series...
For whatever this is all worth , something OR nothing at all...It DOES bring us a wee closer to getting our hands on BLOODFEVER, does it not ?!! Have a great night all...P.S. I'll be eating crow soon. Alot of it. Roasted, grilled & with ketsup, if you please...

[*Jo*]

My brain hurts....but it's a good hurt! :th_thud: Jo, how cool would that be if you were right?! And you just reminded me of something....I saw and ad for a movie called Skin Walkers, a term you used in your definitions....check this out....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461703/photogallery

watch the trailer!
Ginaj THANKS....I just loved it ! NOW that is what I AM talking about...

[Angela]

I so love that someone really obsesses about this as much as I do. I am glad I found all of you. I truly thought you guys would think I was daft when I listed the meanings of his name. I looked up his name, I googled him, I read into each bit and you, JO, pulled all of my jumbled thoughts together and made it into something very exciting. Your research is amazing! KMM should hire you! You Rock!:anim_headbang-vi:

[claudia celestial girl]

Was re-thinking that scene in Casa Blanc, where JB encounters a man named 'Ellis.'

Ellis is described in a way that I picture a vampire to be - pale, thin, etc. Even Malluce - and acknowledged vampire, is descibed as having a white face and sinuous body.

So if JB turns out to truly be a VILKACIS, or even a werewolf, then the exchange that he has with Ellis is very funny, it 's not the ordinary exchange that I thought it was:

"Ah, we're in our usual fine form, aren't we?" the man sneered.

"'We' implies that we came from the same gene pool, Ellis. We didn't."

"Arrogant ****," the man muttered to our backs.

[claudia celestial girl]

Sorry to be anal myself but if you want, I used these as references to further interpretion of JB being Vilkacis damned fae warrior.http://www.reference.com/search?q=werewolves
http://wilk.pedia.org/wiki/vilkacis
www.sacred-texts.com/goth/bw/bow09.htm
www.sacred-texts.com/neu/cfwm/cf206.htm

This is such Great Information! Jo, you are truly amazing! The anal cells in my brain are now satisfied! I'll have to take the whole weekend to study this stuff!

[*Jo*]

I so love that someone really obsesses about this as much as I do. I am glad I found all of you. I truly thought you guys would think I was daft when I listed the meanings of his name. I looked up his name, I googled him, I read into each bit and you, JO, pulled all of my jumbled thoughts together and made it into something very exciting. Your research is amazing! KMM should hire you! You Rock!:anim_headbang-vi:
...at least not this week. I am sad. I work full time 40 hrs....and I can't play at all. BUMMER. Thanks, Angela. You saved me alot of time because you actually did #9 on my list to research. THANK you, with all my heart !

[*Jo*]

This is such Great Information! Jo, you are truly amazing! The anal cells in my brain are now satisfied! I'll have to take the whole weekend to study this stuff!
Actually I'll be making you swear...Alot. Big words. Little ones. Ones that I'll deserve...Want to join me at my table when I start eating CROW ?!!! Actually, I really miss that super goth hero...one of those movies that is so bad you have to watch it over & over...YOU may want to check out the site www.sacred-texts.com. PERIOD. THERE are hundreds of of text catigories, vampires, characteristics,lifestyle,ect. Forgot to mention. ENGLAND did not have werewolves or warewolves. Saxons killed them off completely. EXterminated...gone. None anywhere. They substituted black dogs & black cats (aka HARRY Potter & witch companions)....SCOTLAND never if rarely mentioned them but made note of quite a few natives heavily into cannibalism...NO REALLY.

[claudia celestial girl]

I've been thinking about the vampire vs. werewolf/warrior thing, and JB still exhibits some behavior that is like a more traditional vampire. Like his aversion to Christian relics, and avoidance of daylight. I noticed today for the first time, that throughout DF he is not seen on Sunday. After they meet Malluce, JB tells Mac that he has something to do the next day, and she's got to stay in the bookstore. (She ignores him, of course), but for the first time I said - wait a minute. He does NOT have anything To Do. Liar! He's going to be in the garage all day. (Just a guess).

So I'm going to add Sundays to the list of things, sort of Christian, that JB avoids. Was he cursed by a god Other than Danu or one of her children? I keep going back to the ancient god that the 13 Drahgar called upon 'who's name is best forgotten' - a primitive god. Did JB trade something, or sell something to this god in order to have more power?

[alba]

JO CLaudia and every one who has gone to so much depth and research amaze me :47:Who would have thought that A book could stir this much dicussion
I have to wonder if Karen Know what she has started I for one am so greatful to her (karen) and ALL you GUYS.makes one H.E.L.L.of a READ:2v-vi:

[claudia celestial girl]

Jo. Talk about eating crow! I have to fess up that I was part of a blog that was doing heavy speculating on the final episode of Battlestar Galactica - what was the identity of the final '5'. And I was Totally Wrong on that one. :65:

So I give you fair warning that I'm comfortable with being wrong. It doesn't seem to stop me from speculating!

And now I have to say this:


ENGLAND did not have werewolves or warewolves. Saxons killed them off completely. Exterminated...gone.

What is important is the Universe that KMM creates. It doesn't have to be historical nor accurate to real events. It just has to be self-consistent. So we know there are Vampires. And we sort of have to wait and see what KMM throws at us next, in terms of clues.

I really love the V-- concept (I can't spell it). I'm just not sure about the Fae part. To me the V-- concept is very similar to a werewolf - if I understand what you've posted. It is a magician/warrior/channeling-the-wolf being, someone who is cursed. The V-- concept isn't a being that comes out only on the full moon. So my moon correlations are moot. I think that is consistent with JB's behavior. It is also not a creature that drinks blood like a vampire (if I understand what's been posted). That is also consistent with JB's behaviour. However I am concerned that some part of the curse involves human sacrifice. We shall see.

[Jessica]

He's obviously a Leprechaun. Come on, people! He's in Ireland, collecting treasure. All the signs are there.

Edit: In seriousness, I do wonder if he is a vampire. But... he can see the fae, whilst Mallucé cannot.

It would explain a lot though... like why the shades do not attack him. (They feed off life, and he is undead). What he meant by Fiona "filling his needs", donating her blood so-to-speak. (I don't believe it means she is just there for his sexual pleasure). It could also explain why he came in with human blood on his hand (Remember? It was when he lied about finding a dying dog.) And also, his superhuman strength.

[Cheryle]

He's obviously a Leprechaun. Come on, people! He's in Ireland, collecting treasure. All the signs are there.

LMAO I like that one.

[*Jo*]

Was re-thinking that scene in Casa Blanc, where JB encounters a man named 'Ellis.'

Ellis is described in a way that I picture a vampire to be - pale, thin, etc. Even Malluce - and acknowledged vampire, is descibed as having a white face and sinuous body.

So if JB turns out to truly be a VILKACIS, or even a werewolf, then the exchange that he has with Ellis is very funny, it 's not the ordinary exchange that I thought it was:

"Ah, we're in our usual fine form, aren't we?" the man sneered.

"'We' implies that we came from the same gene pool, Ellis. We didn't."

"Arrogant ****," the man muttered to our backs.
Yes THAT is exactly the way I took the scene. It was humerous !

[*Jo*]

I've been thinking about the vampire vs. werewolf/warrior thing, and JB still exhibits some behavior that is like a more traditional vampire. Like his aversion to Christian relics, and avoidance of daylight. I noticed today for the first time, that throughout DF he is not seen on Sunday. After they meet Malluce, JB tells Mac that he has something to do the next day, and she's got to stay in the bookstore. (She ignores him, of course), but for the first time I said - wait a minute. He does NOT have anything To Do. Liar! He's going to be in the garage all day. (Just a guess).

So I'm going to add Sundays to the list of things, sort of Christian, that JB avoids. Was he cursed by a god Other than Danu or one of her children? I keep going back to the ancient god that the 13 Drahgar called upon 'who's name is best forgotten' - a primitive god. Did JB trade something, or sell something to this god in order to have more power?
Many points to ponder there...GOOD ones !~I will check into some reading material again...

[MeShelle]

I'm thinking he might be a vampire because in the book he tells Mac how difficult it is to kill a vampire. That he knows that a stake dosent really kill them. My thought is he knows that for a fact because he is one... Now my question is why would he know it? Did some one try to kill him if he really is a vampire?

[Aislynn]

I think that JB is a Sidhe-seer. After the compact, ss's were no longer killed by hunters but they "belonged" to the Fae. I think that he was taken by the Fae several hundred years ago and has lived most of his life in the Fae realm. I think that the cuff and torque that he wears somehow shows which Fae royal house he belongs to. Remember V'Lane was trying to get Mac to put on a cuff. It may somehow enslave the ss to the Fae.

[claudia celestial girl]

In Spell, Cian tells Jessi that the McKeltars were a line of Druids selected to safeguard Seelie lore, and that there were other Druids selected to safeguard Unseelie lore.

Here it is exactly (pg 363):

The Keltar were chosen to protect Seelie lore, not Unseelie ... we ken very little of the ways of Dark Magyck, and even less about darker half of the Tuathe De Danaan.

I guess I was wondering if it was possible that there were Druids selected to protect Unseelie lore, and maybe JB is one of those. He knows a lot about the Unseelie. I've always wondered about his comment about the Grey Man, how "I didn't know he was here" - WTF! If the Unseelie prison was only recently 'leaking' then how did JB even know that there WAS a Grey Man? Let alone that the Grey Man was in Dublin. He knows alot about the Seelie as well, but his knowledge of Unseelie matters is tremendous. It seems almost greater than Cian's knowledge, if, at one time, Cian was allowing Lucan to teach/share things with him. I mean, would Cian be able to recognize the Grey Man from a verbal description? To know that the other Unseelie mock the Grey Man? Perhaps Cian would. But I'm wondering if one reason that JB knows so much about the Fae is that he's maybe someone who is trusted (by the Seelie court?) with Unseelie lore. And/or cursed because of it. We don't really know much about the Druid part of the KMM universe. Before Spell came out, who knew, for example, that there could be anyone like Lucan?

:49:

[Aislynn]

JB could be the son of Circenn. That would make him part Fae and grandson of Adam Black. Last we heard, the Seelie hallows were under Circenn's protection. It would stand to reason that his son would fill the position when he grew up. He may now be somehow cursed or blamed that the hallows are now scattered about. It may now be his duty to find them. Circenn and his family would "vacation" in the Fae relm according to Immortal Highlander. He would know many of the Fae. He would also be part of Adam's line D'Jai, hence the torque he wears.

Yes, I'm, grasping at straws, but what else is there to do until the next book comes out?

[claudia celestial girl]

I think that JB is a Sidhe-seer. After the compact, ss's were no longer killed by hunters but they "belonged" to the Fae. I think that he was taken by the Fae several hundred years ago and has lived most of his life in the Fae realm. I think that the cuff and torque that he wears somehow shows which Fae royal house he belongs to. Remember V'Lane was trying to get Mac to put on a cuff. It may somehow enslave the ss to the Fae.
HI Aislynn! Welcome to the board! This is the section where all of us put our goofy ideas out there for other people to wack away at! ;-)

I noticed today, that this thread has had more than 1000 views! That gives me chills!

What an interesting idea, that JB might be a stolen Sidhe-seer. It's a very plausible one. I personally think no single thing will fully explain JB. He's got to be a Sidhe-seer, ... and something else too. Didn't Gabby explain, in Immortal, that a Sidhe-seer that was taken lived out their lives on the Isle of Morar? I assumed that meant a normal human life-span. Do you think that the Island of Morar bestowed a longer lifespan? You seem to think, as a lot of us do, that JB is ancient, several centuries old, or more. If JB is a Sidhe-seer, which he obviously is, then what explains his longevity?

I soooo agree with you that that cuff - the Cuff of Cruce, is likely to enslave the wearer to the Fae. So do you think that V'Lane is Seelie or Unseelie?

[Kelli Jo]

I've always wondered about his comment about the Grey Man, how "I didn't know he was here" - WTF! If the Unseelie prison was only recently 'leaking' then how did JB even know that there WAS a Grey Man? Let alone that the Grey Man was in Dublin. He knows alot about the Seelie as well, but his knowledge of Unseelie matters is tremendous.

I was wondering this myself. I was also wondering if Aeden (from Dreaming) would recognize any of the Unseelie by sight or description. Did he encounter them in his time in the Dark King's prison? If he did (or would) this could be a clue to JB's identity.

[claudia celestial girl]

I was wondering this myself. I was also wondering if Aeden (from Dreaming) would recognize any of the Unseelie by sight or description. Did he encounter them in his time in the Dark King's prison? If he did (or would) this could be a clue to JB's identity.
Yes. I'm starting to think a lot more about JB having spent time with the Unseelie. Maybe as a Vengeance. I just think JB has sooo much heart. I have a hard time seeing him as cold as Aeden. But Aeden had a heart too, underneath. Soooo. I'm thinking ... (to quote Mac from that time at 2 am when she saw JB again).

[Aislynn]

Remember what happened to Aeden in Dreaming. 5 years in the Fae realm is 500 years mortal time.

[Kelli Jo]

Aeden had Jane to force him to see his human side...JB doesn't have that. Maybe at one time he did. He told Mac in the one teaser that at one time he loved. Aeden loved too and that is why he went to the Dark King to begin with...to protect his family. When Aeden was released he had Jane to help him heal. Think about being released after 500 years of service and having NO ONE there to help you through the pain of all he had lost! It would make getting the Dark Book in order to mete out some vengeance of his own pretty damn tempting!

[Aislynn]

I think V'Lane is Seelie or else Mac would have seen or sensed something.

Time passes differently in Morar according to Adam. I few days in Morar would be months in mortal time. This might explain how JB could be hundreds of years old. Another thought: Could he have taken the immortality elixer and is now souless?

[Aislynn]

I have a new question to throw out to you guys. Who is Cruce? JB wears the cuff of Cruce and in the glossary at the end of DarkFever look at the definition for Sifting Silvers or Silvers
"an elaborate maze of mirrors once used as the primary method of Fae travel between realms, until Cruce cast the forbidden curse into the silvered corridors. Now no Fae dares enter the silvers. (Def. JB)"

[claudia celestial girl]

I have a new question to throw out to you guys. Who is Cruce? JB wears the cuff of Cruce and in the glossary at the end of DarkFever look at the definition for Sifting Silvers or Silvers
"an elaborate maze of mirrors once used as the primary method of Fae travel between realms, until Cruce cast the forbidden curse into the silvered corridors. Now no Fae dares enter the silvers. (Def. JB)"
I had a question about that too. And in one of the BF threads we wondered if Cruce is a character that appears in the BF booklet - a shadowy figure. I don't want to spoil it, in case someone on this thread has not read the BF booklet.

Then again, one of the teasers says - even as Mac avoids his dark minions, she must face an inhuman enemy... Is it Cruce who is after her? The Dark King? The Lord Master? There are a lot of potential characters, so this will be a fun series to read.

[Angela]

JB's ID, do you think KMM will change it as she goes to keep us from getting too close? She always seems to know what we are thinking when we read, even answering questions as we think them. Would she then say Okay, these gals are smart let them chew on this turn of events...? If I was a writer and saw how "stimulated" my readers were over my story, I wold keep them jumping through unwritten hoops until the end.

Jo,Claudia and Cheryle,

Yet another freaking Wolf link! Every time I start to let the wolf thing rest, I run across another link. I am all over the place here...
Notice the name about mid-page down. Da#n, KMM does blow me away. The cool stuff that is coming to life in here head is :2v-vi: so wonderful. What a yarn!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker


Ps what got me here was a Movie title "Berserker". I have it in my Q so I will let you know next week (I hope) what it is about.

[oracle]

Just off-head without any supporting documentation: I was under the impression that sidhe-seers were women, not men. If I must I will dig up the references or if someone here has them, please post (bless you). The references to sidhe-seers were always "she" and Adam talks about one he came across in Immortal, aged and hidden in a forest who he took to Morar when she was dying and gave her a beautiful glamour and kissed her last breath...I do believe all references to sidhe-seers indicate that they were all women. Therefore, JB is not simply a sidhe-seer but something else...

[*Jo*]

Just off-head without any supporting documentation: I was under the impression that sidhe-seers were women, not men. If I must I will dig up the references or if someone here has them, please post (bless you). The references to sidhe-seers were always "she" and Adam talks about one he came across in Immortal, aged and hidden in a forest who he took to Morar when she was dying and gave her a beautiful glamour and kissed her last breath...I do believe all references to sidhe-seers indicate that they were all women. Therefore, JB is not simply a sidhe-seer but something else...
....I definitely agree with this. Adam told Gaby that seers were revered all through his history. Woman seers were prized and sought after for brides. Gaby then gives her perspctive that wasn't true of...NOW. GREAT POINT.Women were the seers.

[Cheryle]

I agree with both Jo and Oracle on this point as well! There has not been any mention of men being seerers.

JB is something different and something special.

Angela please do tell me if the movie you are renting is good, I will place it in by Q as well!

[*Jo*]

I agree with both Jo and Oracle on this point as well! There has not been any mention of men being seerers.

JB is something different and something special.

Angela please do tell me if the movie you are renting is good, I will place it in by Q as well!
IMMORTAL HIGHLANDER...TOP of page 80
Gold torque (no cuffs listed) & women seers (because warriors as Adam states are men competing for the seers hand in marriage)
Read to the break ending page 82...
OR continue reading just to get hot about it while Adam sits on your frilly bed while you drink the coffee he prepared for you !

[Kelli Jo]

Maybe JB is V'lane's son.

[Cheryle]

Maybe JB is V'lane's son.


Now that is something I have never thought of. Makes sense. Boy JB sure wouldn't like it if daddy was trying to steal his woman.

[*Jo*]

I've been thinking about the vampire vs. werewolf/warrior thing, and JB still exhibits some behavior that is like a more traditional vampire. Like his aversion to Christian relics, and avoidance of daylight. I noticed today for the first time, that throughout DF he is not seen on Sunday. After they meet Malluce, JB tells Mac that he has something to do the next day, and she's got to stay in the bookstore. (She ignores him, of course), but for the first time I said - wait a minute. He does NOT have anything To Do. Liar! He's going to be in the garage all day. (Just a guess).

So I'm going to add Sundays to the list of things, sort of Christian, that JB avoids. Was he cursed by a god Other than Danu or one of her children? I keep going back to the ancient god that the 13 Drahgar called upon 'who's name is best forgotten' - a primitive god. Did JB trade something, or sell something to this god in order to have more power?
For religious, anything DAMNED or CURSED do NOT look to religious relics of ANY kind with a smile on their faces, honesly. Possessed people who are that, or BELIEVE they are truely possessed also hate anything religious...AKA 'DAMNED" I know this. Went to Catholic school 11 years straight reading about the fires of hell for committing all types of sinning. Rules, rules, rules: sins of fornication, 10 Commandments given to Moses , THE greatest Commandment of all, AND the seven deadly sins...and just what can get you damned. LIKE reading romance novels and hoping "the sister" who was teaching Chemistry 101 wouldn't get her hands on your book BEFORE you finished reading the end during her class !

[Cheryle]

Jo you make me glad that my parents let me go to public school!

[*Jo*]

Jo you make me glad that my parents let me go to public school!
....I wish mine didn't bother. Talk about repressed sexuality !

[Michelle*My*Belle]

....I wish mine didn't bother. Talk about repressed sexuality !


You aren't supposed to have sex unless it's to make babies. You aren't supposed to use condoms or birth control. I went to Catholic schools too. :happy0194:

[*Jo*]

...sin of fornication IF you have sex and ABSTINANCE for birth control only...Let's say PLAY ROULETTE !

[Deja]

Hi Lass,

Ck. out my post on JB's heritage..It sort of deals with your post

Deja

[Cheryle]

...sin of fornication IF you have sex and ABSTINANCE for birth control only...Let's say PLAY ROULETTE !

That is why my mom always told me to be quiet at church! Shhhhh!

[*Jo*]

That is why my mom always told me to be quiet at church! Shhhhh!
fudge buckets !

[*Jo*]

Hi Lass,

Ck. out my post on JB's heritage..It sort of deals with your post

Deja
Deja, I'll go find that for sure !

[*Jo*]

Deja, I'll go find that for sure !
Found it and responded to it. Did you go into the secret texts web too ? Alot of info there it would make your head spin. Skin walkers, shape sifters, and WARE OH ! My...

[*Jo*]

JB's ID, do you think KMM will change it as she goes to keep us from getting too close? She always seems to know what we are thinking when we read, even answering questions as we think them. Would she then say Okay, these gals are smart let them chew on this turn of events...? If I was a writer and saw how "stimulated" my readers were over my story, I wold keep them jumping through unwritten hoops until the end.

Jo,Claudia and Cheryle,

Yet another freaking Wolf link! Every time I start to let the wolf thing rest, I run across another link. I am all over the place here...
Notice the name about mid-page down. Da#n, KMM does blow me away. The cool stuff that is coming to life in here head is :2v-vi: so wonderful. What a yarn!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker


Ps what got me here was a Movie title "Berserker". I have it in my Q so I will let you know next week (I hope) what it is about.
One more in the side pocket please...OR another feather in the cap I should say, OUI ?!!

[*Jo*]

One more in the side pocket please...OR another feather in the cap I should say, OUI ?!!
PLEASE LET me know. Can always do me a message in my mail here...THANKS !

[claudia celestial girl]

Yeah - I think Jo did a slam-dunk with her research on the wiki page of some of KMM's terms.

OUI, baby! ;-)

[claudia celestial girl]

Going back to who/what is JB ... I was reading a different Vampire book on my trip (The Vampire Queen's Servant - you gals should check it out!!!)

You know how Mac is in the room with JB &Malluce and she says that there's a thing that should couldn't put her finger on that was wrong with that picture ... that she wouldn't get until it was too late ...

Well, I guess in traditional vampire lit, vamps don't cast reflections in mirrors. I read that paragraph in DF again, and cant' figure out if there is anything about her seeing neither JB nor Malluce in a mirror. But I thought I would throw it out there.

[*Jo*]

Going back to who/what is JB ... I was reading a different Vampire book on my trip (The Vampire Queen's Servant - you gals should check it out!!!)

You know how Mac is in the room with JB &Malluce and she says that there's a thing that should couldn't put her finger on that was wrong with that picture ... that she wouldn't get until it was too late ...

Well, I guess in traditional vampire lit, vamps don't cast reflections in mirrors. I read that paragraph in DF again, and cant' figure out if there is anything about her seeing neither JB nor Malluce in a mirror. But I thought I would throw it out there.
Ya know I just started rereading that today. I haven't hit that part yet 'cause I wanted to finish INTO the Dreaming...THESE TWO books keep calling my name without end. I will post back when I hit THAT section. Stay tuned. Same BAT channel... Same Bat time ! wink !

[oracle]

This is a mystery that would be great to unravel:

1) It is a Seelie Hallow, capable of killing the Fae
2) JB is uncomfortable touching it to steal it from O'Bannion and has Mac grab it
3) He tells her after they steal it that all along, he intended for her to have it to protect her
4) JB uses the Spear to kill the Gray Man after Mac's botched Fae assasination attempt on p. 140 but it doesn't seem that he touched it directly. Rather, it was in Mac's largest purse and he removed the foil from the razor-sharp tip and stabs Gray Man after irritably telling Mac off about her poor approach for this attack. He touches the spear through the purse but not directly, I think.

What are your thoughts on Barrons and the Spear?

[claudia celestial girl]

This is a mystery that would be great to unravel:

1) It is a Seelie Hallow, capable of killing the Fae
2) JB is uncomfortable touching it to steal it from O'Bannion and has Mac grab it
3) He tells her after they steal it that all along, he intended for her to have it to protect her
4) JB uses the Spear to kill the Gray Man after Mac's botched Fae assasination attempt on p. 140 but it doesn't seem that he touched it directly. Rather, it was in Mac's largest purse and he removed the foil from the razor-sharp tip and stabs Gray Man after irritably telling Mac off about her poor approach for this attack. He touches the spear through the purse but not directly, I think.

What are your thoughts on Barrons and the Spear?
Yessssss. Very interesting. My take on it is that this is evidence of JBs aversion to Christian relics. You may remember also, there was a scene with OBannion where JB seemed to be 'not present' to Mac's senses. The room was filled with religious (Christian) images and idols. Madonna + child & etc.

I think those two facts are connected. JB can't stand to be around or handle Christian things.

[*Jo*]

This is a mystery that would be great to unravel:

1) It is a Seelie Hallow, capable of killing the Fae
2) JB is uncomfortable touching it to steal it from O'Bannion and has Mac grab it
3) He tells her after they steal it that all along, he intended for her to have it to protect her
4) JB uses the Spear to kill the Gray Man after Mac's botched Fae assasination attempt on p. 140 but it doesn't seem that he touched it directly. Rather, it was in Mac's largest purse and he removed the foil from the razor-sharp tip and stabs Gray Man after irritably telling Mac off about her poor approach for this attack. He touches the spear through the purse but not directly, I think.

What are your thoughts on Barrons and the Spear?
I believe JB is cursed, d*mned and 'unholy', religious items are taboo because the relics would cause catastrophic physical, emtional, or mental damage if he came in direct contact to it ( aka the spear of Destiny,the Holy Lance that pierced Christ's side,the spear of Longinus,FAE spear of Luin or Luisne)."It is believed to have mystical powers," by reading the whole page #194 of Darkfever. Also the spear is believe to freezes fae, seelie and unseelie...and in those few moments of immobility, that would likely mean death,the ability to be killed, the inability to protect oneself from being destroyed...

[mommaj]

Good thoughts Zebby! I was wondering about the "immortal/half-fae" part myself. Everyone has such good ideas/thoughts on what JB is...I am having a hard time deciding where I stand on it..other than immortal. I have a feeling that Mac is going to help break his "curse" and help make him "human" again. I am a firm believer in love conquers all-lol! As I have said before, I don't care what JB is...I just want MORE! :drool-vi:

[ButIStillHaveQuestions]

This is a mystery that would be great to unravel:


4) JB uses the Spear to kill the Gray Man after Mac's botched Fae assasination attempt on p. 140 but it doesn't seem that he touched it directly. Rather, it was in Mac's largest purse and he removed the foil from the razor-sharp tip and stabs Gray Man after irritably telling Mac off about her poor approach for this attack. He touches the spear through the purse but not directly, I think.

What are your thoughts on Barrons and the Spear?

I was reading this thread the other night after I finished DF for the third time and moved on to BF and I noticed something interesting (actually I think I only noticed it cuz I had just looked at this thread before starting the book again). I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't read BF but go to page 102 in BF it has to do with the spear and JB.

[oracle]

We've talked about this quite a bit in the BF forum. Search "spear" in the BF forum and you should be able to find those discussioins.

[koala]

This is a mystery that would be great to unravel:

1) It is a Seelie Hallow, capable of killing the Fae
2) JB is uncomfortable touching it to steal it from O'Bannion and has Mac grab it
3) He tells her after they steal it that all along, he intended for her to have it to protect her
4) JB uses the Spear to kill the Gray Man after Mac's botched Fae assasination attempt on p. 140 but it doesn't seem that he touched it directly. Rather, it was in Mac's largest purse and he removed the foil from the razor-sharp tip and stabs Gray Man after irritably telling Mac off about her poor approach for this attack. He touches the spear through the purse but not directly, I think.

What are your thoughts on Barrons and the Spear?

I have no basis for this idea, just thoughts swirling around. With the spear being one of the big 4 relics and if we presume that Barrons is fae or part fae, then maybe if he touches it, it might either damage/destroy his glamour (if he's fae and using one) or maybe react to him and identify him to say the hunters? Like I said, just pure conjecture. Because Barrons doesn't seem to have any problems holding that other seelie object - the orb from the house of D'Jai.

I didn't get the impression he was uncomfortable touching it, but that's just me, it was more when they first got it that he was irritated he hadn't seen it, even when looking right at it.

I also don't see (sorry Jo) any reason why Barrons should fear Christian relics. No disrespect intended, but as a religion Christianity is only 2000 years old and since the spear is actually a much older fae relic, I don't see why it would affect him. If he's druid, then I'm thinking the same thing applies. Really only if Barrons is Christian and cursed would religious icons of that faith "upset" him. Maybe he's Judas (yup, I watching Dracula 2000 last night - and as an aside, have you watched GB's audition on the DVD, the wild hair - phew)

[Saint]

HI!

I love your question. I don't have an answer. I'll just list below some of my thoughts on the matter:

1) My gut feeling is that JB is not a vampire, though I don't have any concrete reason for saying so. I do think his remarks about Malluce are hilarious - calling him the 'undead ****' - as if he is resentful about Malluce's claim to be a vampire. It's as if he resents Malluce claiming to be undead, when JB himself might be undead for some reason.

2) I looked carefully to coordinate JB sightings with full moon appearances, and it looks like JB is out and about, and his 'normal' self during the full moon. So I'm not convinced that he is a werewolf.

3) HOWEVER - someone else noted that even his car is a 'wolf,' he has 'issues' with daylight (like he has never been seen in daylight unless underground or inside a big warehouse).

4) he has 'issues' with religious relics. I'm convinced in the scene at O'Bannion's place, where he's inside the room with all the Madonna and child relics & etc, that he was 'far away' because all that stuff makes him uncomfortable and/or diminishes his power.

5) I have the gut feeling that he is Ancient with a capital 'A.' His 'Bascque & Pict' comment is one of the clues, I think. Like you say - who would say that in today's age? And I think a lot about Mac's first impression of him - that surely he was 'spawned by some cataclismic event of nature.'

I'm convinced that KMM is going to tease us with this unmercifully until the end of the series. ;-)

:49:
Hi, I am new member. I see your name alot. I think Barron could be a old fae like a vampwolf. He could be a guardian angel for Mac. I think also there should be more hot scenes between Mac and Barron and between Mac and Vlane. When exactly is Faefever coming out?

[bricefelicia]

i think that jb is the fea king that they talk about in the book beound the highland mist. i think that jb is an very old fea

[bricefelicia]

So, when I read that we had a new board I was thrilled – until I read that the posts were lost. I was really enjoying reading all of the theories and plot discussions. Now I get to start one myself. So back to the fun…
What/Who is Barrons???
I don’t know if this was brought up on the previous board but has anyone given much heed to the fact that Barrons describes himself as “Basque and Celt. Pict to be precise” (in my book this is on page 68) I don’t see a modern saying this- more like “oh, me… yeah… I’m Scottish and German” or something like that. As with all of Karen’s books I didn’t pick this up until the second time I read it. Now I am going back through and looking for more details.
So… Ladies ( and Gentlemen) let us resume all forms of speculation in anticipation of October!!!!!!!!

i think that jb is very old and have a bit of evil in him that he keeps a good hold on

[bricefelicia]

Great idea! You're brilliant. Of course. That would explain why Fiona was looking embarrassed after JB came back with Mac from the warehouse. Because she Didn't Call JB, not because she called too late!

How about this scenario - JB is keeping an eye on Mac, and Fio is keeping an eye on JB. That would explain certain events in the booklet ;-) I've been asking questions about why Fio would show up when she did on Sunday. Butcher shop my ... petunia!

What a troika!

I've been wondering about that conversation between V'Lane and JB. How did it go? What did they talk about? I assumed for a long time that V'Lane & JB didn't really 'know' each other. Until JB says V'Lane told me. But then ... how did that conversation really go? Was it taunting? Or was it casual conversation? Did V'Lane try to convince JB to convince Mac to accept the cuff? (a normal, friendly thing to do) Or did V'Lane not mention it (making me wonder even more at his motives, and whether he is Unseelie).

how about jb and v'lane being bothers of how about in adams black's book the one person that on cursed to be human in the end he could be tring to get the book to get back to the queen

[Delanie]

JB I think is a strange character..I don't want to superimpose my thoughts on this..because I might be wrong...

But well, its got 'powers' and such...but well human as well...

could he be a druid...sure...

could he be more than a druid...sure...

could he be a fae, banished from the realm by the queen..sure

could he be a bad fae, that saw the light of day?...sure...

too early to call...

but I think he is more than a druid...so that puts me in the realm of a fae or other magical type person...

[claudia celestial girl]

JB I think is a strange character..I don't want to superimpose my thoughts on this..because I might be wrong...

But well, its got 'powers' and such...but well human as well...

could he be a druid...sure...

could he be more than a druid...sure...

could he be a fae, banished from the realm by the queen..sure

could he be a bad fae, that saw the light of day?...sure...

too early to call...

but I think he is more than a druid...so that puts me in the realm of a fae or other magical type person...
This sounds like a poem! ;-)

[miss.me]

after all that ive read, and after all thats been discussed.. i think, for now, im going to decide to believe that JB is so ancient that he has accumulated so many different identities amalgameted into one.

1. hes the son of mortal and some mythical being (i dont know why but i dont feel like its fae unless he was for some reason stripped of his fae identity the same way Darroc was).
2. hes a druid from the ancient lines of PICT. Maybe he was adopted as a young warrior, by druids, after loosing his whole family to that battle that left him riding alone in the desert.
3. while guarding the dark book he had to face off with some being and became cursed into being some type of immortal beast
5. he killed whoever cursed him but did not get rid of the curse
4. his slavery to a bad power darkened him and made him despise all who medle with ppls' lives (including the fae). Or maybe he trusted them at some point, was in league with them, maybe adam- for we were told that Adam aided so many during battles.. and he was somehow betrayed by them.

I think thats what im going to settle on for now.. it might change in a couple of days lol.

[druidgirl]

I don't think barrons is a werewolf and I don't think he's a vampire. The half fae theory has some merit but I think if such is the case, he's not Adams cuz Adam would've claimed him like he did Circenn. And I really don't think that Barrons is actually Adam. Dunno.

[druidgirl]

I forgot about Barrons not touching the spear directly. hmm. Wonder why. I've had the same idea that maybe he's damned- kinda like Dageus. He tells Mac that he has been broken and loved so maybe he loved someone and tried to use magic to undo whatever happened to her or them and it damned him. He has dark magic tattoos so he's obviously dabbled in black magic. Kinda like Cian.

[Pyxie]

I forgot about Barrons not touching the spear directly. hmm. Wonder why. I've had the same idea that maybe he's damned- kinda like Dageus. He tells Mac that he has been broken and loved so maybe he loved someone and tried to use magic to undo whatever happened to her or them and it damned him. He has dark magic tattoos so he's obviously dabbled in black magic. Kinda like Cian.


A couple of theories about JB not touching the spear are that he could be Fae or part Fae and has a fear being destroyed. The other is that it's a religious artifact, it is supposed to be the same spear that pierced Christ in the chest, and some speculate that if he is were or vamp, he would have a real aversion to any religious artifact. At O'Bannions is one of the few times you see him in a moment of 'weakness', Mac mentions something about it in Darkfever. And I definitely agree that he is deeply involved in the dark arts, that's why he has all the tattoo's. :th_nod:

[Crystal]

I saw and ad for a movie called Skin Walkers, a term you used in your definitions

I just watched Skinwalkers last weekend and LOVED it. I'm hoping they make more since the first one left such an opening at the end. The guy who played the main baddie was yummo. I can't remember his first name, but his lastname is Behr. He alone makes it worth watching again.

[Saint]

well Jb is definetly not a vampwolf or a werebunny oh some many theories:th_thud:

[HopeChasez]

*side note: heyy...I think this is my first post! :65:*

I am so glad I'm not the only one racking my brain about these characters. Man, what awesome writers do to us readers. haha

Now, while reading Darkfever, I was wondering about who these people are...they're all so much more than they seem...and even so much more than the more than they seem. okay...I'm redundant. -_-''

Barrons...I can't even begin to imagine who/what he might be. But sometimes, I wonder if he and V'Lane are the same person, different glamour. And so powerful, being royalty, that even Mac can't see thru it. I'm probably definitely wrong, but it would be an interesting scene when that's unraveled. xD (I haven't read Bloodfever yet, so have no idea what happens...was waiting for paperback, and now just waiting for a free day to stop by the bookstore -_-)

But he is definitely more than just a Sidhe-Seer. I hope with all my heart he is not working for the Unseelie King (which cannot be discredited since he can move amongst the Shades with no problems). He has signs of Druid ancestry, because when Fiona picked that fight with him about sending Mac packing, at the end she spoke like she was in a trance, or something like that (don't have the book in front of me). I remember...was it Dageus that was able to do that as well? Murmur something and Chloe went right to sleep!

He could be immortal...and yes, very old because of the reference. and given that strength and ability (jumping down, what was it...30 somethings in that warehouse)...could he be a strain of Berserk?

but man...he's hot. haha. Mac is attracted to him...she feels a heat and pull when she's near him...like with V'Lane (mr. death by sex Fae...oh yes please) but 1000x less strong. :drool-vi:

Okay, I think I've babbled enough without making a single point :th_thud:

Help my racing mind to find some level of balance when it comes to these people!

[mysticalharmony]

Hi...

I"m new here, but have read the books and am totally in love with them...

When I started Dark Fever, I wasn't too sure, but once starting...well couldn't put it down and the wait for Blood Fever what horrible...now...

This new wait is soooo tramatic....

My idea of JB is he is part Fae...he has all the qualities and then some...

And his knowledge...well makes me wonder if there is some immortality going on there...

I don't feel that there is any vampire...but druid is a definite possibility...

But if I know the author of this book or any other...it will be the bitter end before we find out what we want to know...

Ellie

[Nala147]

well I am sure P am not the frit one in point this one out, but, he have a cuff like V´lane and Adam, he have this "old" feeling, so, is he some king of Unselie fae prince? one to like Adam become human at one point? or maybe he is some kind of mix betewen both of them?, anyways, something is dark about him, so I think he is some kind of unselie prince, maybe a banished one? who knows but Karen? and she is not going to spoil the surprise :P

[lisaannlj]

:6:
Hi, I'm new to the forum but not the books. :D

And let me say right up front that it's killing me waiting for the other books! About JB, I was reading this last night and I'm just not sure. He had blood on his hand that Mac noticed, he is extra strong, strong enough to throw the vampire across the room. And we know that he is very familiar with the underground tunnels. He could use them during the day. Ack! I want to know! I am really bummed that I missed the booklet with the first 3 chapters, but I also know that it would have left me just wanting more. :th_duhhhh-vi: If I had the complete series in my possession right now I would hole up until the last page was read. :th_goingtobed-vi:

he is something i just love

[sharmila]

I have no idea why...but for some reason i think JB is V'lane.....any ideas on that???

[HopeChasez]

I have no idea why...but for some reason i think JB is V'lane.....any ideas on that???

That idea popped in my head as well! =D

Barrons...I can't even begin to imagine who/what he might be. But sometimes, I wonder if he and V'Lane are the same person, different glamour. And so powerful, being royalty, that even Mac can't see thru it. I'm probably definitely wrong, but it would be an interesting scene when that's unraveled. xD

Other ideas:

But he is definitely more than just a Sidhe-Seer. He has signs of Druid ancestry, because when Fiona picked that fight with him about sending Mac packing, at the end she spoke like she was in a trance, or something like that (don't have the book in front of me). I remember...was it Dageus that was able to do that as well? Murmur something and Chloe fell right asleep...and couldn't see or hear at the end. Power of Voice, right?

He could be immortal...and yes, very old because of the reference. and given that strength and ability (jumping down, what was it...30 somethings in that warehouse)...could he be a strain of Berserk?

So many possibilities...will not think about him being unseelie unless I am forced to. =P

[janna7]

That idea popped in my head as well! =D

Barrons...I can't even begin to imagine who/what he might be. But sometimes, I wonder if he and V'Lane are the same person, different glamour. And so powerful, being royalty, that even Mac can't see thru it. I'm probably definitely wrong, but it would be an interesting scene when that's unraveled. xD

Other ideas:

But he is definitely more than just a Sidhe-Seer. He has signs of Druid ancestry, because when Fiona picked that fight with him about sending Mac packing, at the end she spoke like she was in a trance, or something like that (don't have the book in front of me). I remember...was it Dageus that was able to do that as well? Murmur something and Chloe fell right asleep...and couldn't see or hear at the end. Power of Voice, right?

He could be immortal...and yes, very old because of the reference. and given that strength and ability (jumping down, what was it...30 somethings in that warehouse)...could he be a strain of Berserk?

So many possibilities...will not think about him being unseelie unless I am forced to. =P

I am with you....can't think about him being any **BAD** he HAS to be a good guy!!

Janna7

[Breila]

Im new to this also (got hooked very quickly. lol. and im dying inside waiting for FF) But i think there is definatly Druid ancestry in Barrons or at least he has knowledge of it...because in Spell of the highlander Cian had tattoos all over himself and who was the "bad-guy" in that one? well, whoever it is, was covered in the special scribes to ward off the effects of using dark magic to a certain extent...BUT when Mac and Barrons had the steamy "almost-there" sex scene, Barrons' torso was covered with tatoos. Plus, at the end of BF when mac was talking to Ryodan, he indicated that Jerico Barrons isnt Barrons' real name. Heres the convo...



"Mac!" the voice roared.
"Im here. Im fine. Im sorry," I said.
"Why did you call?"
"I wondered where Barrons was."
There was a soft laugh, a deep, rumbling purr. "Is that wah he's calling himself these days? Barrons?"



So...i think he could be a MacKeltar. Thats how Christian could be involved. why he knows about Mac, Alina, and Barrons. Someone has probably already had this idea and i havent seen the thread, but this is just how my mind put it together.:65:

[HopeChasez]

Im new to this also (got hooked very quickly. lol. and im dying inside waiting for FF) But i think there is definatly Druid ancestry in Barrons or at least he has knowledge of it...because in Spell of the highlander Cian had tattoos all over himself and who was the "bad-guy" in that one? well, whoever it is, was covered in the special scribes to ward off the effects of using dark magic to a certain extent...BUT when Mac and Barrons had the steamy "almost-there" sex scene, Barrons' torso was covered with tatoos. Plus, at the end of BF when mac was talking to Ryodan, he indicated that Jerico Barrons isnt Barrons' real name. Heres the convo...



"Mac!" the voice roared.
"Im here. Im fine. Im sorry," I said.
"Why did you call?"
"I wondered where Barrons was."
There was a soft laugh, a deep, rumbling purr. "Is that wah he's calling himself these days? Barrons?"



So...i think he could be a MacKeltar. Thats how Christian could be involved. why he knows about Mac, Alina, and Barrons. Someone has probably already had this idea and i havent seen the thread, but this is just how my mind put it together.:65:


omgggg...I haven't read BloodFever yet!!!!! =( le sigh. and the bad guy in SotH was Lucan Myrddin Trevayne...who was completely covered with the tatoos, even his tongue and eyelids, etc. Cian also had tatoos...and yes, it was to ward off evil repurcussions while using dark magicks. So if JB is marked with crimson and black tatoos...then it means he's dabbled in the dark arts. interesting.

[Breila]

omgggg...I haven't read BloodFever yet!!!!! =( le sigh. and the bad guy in SotH was Lucan Myrddin Trevayne...who was completely covered with the tatoos, even his tongue and eyelids, etc. Cian also had tatoos...and yes, it was to ward off evil repurcussions while using dark magicks. So if JB is marked with crimson and black tatoos...then it means he's dabbled in the dark arts. interesting.

your missing out! BloodFever was amazing! and thank you, ill remeber his name...but yes that is what i think is going on with Barrons.

[Cornelia]

With the Pict/Basque heritage he could easily go back to the Bronze Age. I’ve thought that he could be an ancient Celtic god, but I really don't think it's the case, though I would like that.

[Azana]

I think JB is a kind of vampire- caus I read the book in German- the thread of the first chapter is "IM BANN DES VAMPIRS" and the second is "IM REICH DES VAMPIRS" As so I think- that he could be a kind of vampire. Istarted reading 2 weeks ago withe the first book, the second is getting ready, but damned- I have to wait until february 2010 if the third edition in Germany will appear...

so long^^ in umbra et obscuritas^^

[airbear82]

I think JB is a kind of vampire- caus I read the book in German- the thread of the first chapter is "IM BANN DES VAMPIRS" and the second is "IM REICH DES VAMPIRS" As so I think- that he could be a kind of vampire. Istarted reading 2 weeks ago withe the first book, the second is getting ready, but damned- I have to wait until february 2010 if the third edition in Germany will appear...

so long^^ in umbra et obscuritas^^

I saw the German book covers though and the Titles have vampire in them even though the series is not about vampires it is about the fae. This has already been talked about but if he was a vampire I for one will be really disappointed. Don't get me wrong I love Vampires, but there are a lot of vampire romances out there right now and the fever series is the one series that I read where I enjoy the fact that it is not about vampires. Also since Karen has never written about vampires in any of her earlier books I am inclined to think that she will stay with what she knows and that is the fae.

[epidg530]

what book is the immortals that you referred to? i saw that some other people referred to it as well...

[Ollie]

I saw the German book covers though and the Titles have vampire in them even though the series is not about vampires it is about the fae. This has already been talked about but if he was a vampire I for one will be really disappointed. Don't get me wrong I love Vampires, but there are a lot of vampire romances out there right now and the fever series is the one series that I read where I enjoy the fact that it is not about vampires. Also since Karen has never written about vampires in any of her earlier books I am inclined to think that she will stay with what she knows and that is the fae.

If I remember right, in a chat or ask Karen thread she said something about she has no control over the titles/images in other countries.

[C59100]

what book is the immortals that you referred to? i saw that some other people referred to it as well...


They are in the Highlander Series. Immortal Highlander & The Highlander's Touch.

[Kesali]

Barrons is the Unseelie King.
Everything fits if approached a certain way.

[heather_rain]

My belief is that Jerrico is a Bezerker.

[pixybrat]

Hmm...I haven't read any of the Highlander series as of yet, but my suspicion is that Barrons is the UK. He has WAY too much power not to be in my eyes. And remember, the UK was regretful(?) after his lover died...perhaps he is trying to make things right?

[heather_rain]

the UK has lots his mind and gone crazy after being live for millions of yrs., not sure where I read that but I do remember reading it somewhere. Also recall something about JZB not being fully human, but not being fae either. I might be wrong on that one. See I have a theory, all but 1 of Karens books link with the Fae series. If JZB was a Beserker, then all her books have a connection with the current situation Mac is in.

[Ali123]

JB is a werewolf or part of the Fae Royalty

[InkedValkyrie428]

Was talking to my mom who is also a fan of KMM what she thought Barrons was. She said she thinks he is definatley Fae or part Fae. As for his other half, she said she is still trying to figure that out. She also said at she thinks maybe he could be the Unseelie King, Vampire, part Fae/Berserker. As for me I have no frogging clue!! I think that there has to be some Fae in him. *sighs* Guess we'll just have to wait and see! I HATE waiting!!!!

[tinar1121]

Was talking to my mom who is also a fan of KMM what she thought Barrons was. She said she thinks he is definatley Fae or part Fae. As for his other half, she said she is still trying to figure that out. She also said at she thinks maybe he could be the Unseelie King, Vampire, part Fae/Berserker. As for me I have no frogging clue!! I think that there has to be some Fae in him. *sighs* Guess we'll just have to wait and see! I HATE waiting!!!!

I wish my mom read the same books that I do. It would be great to be able to discuss them.

I am still leaning towards Unseelie King. But, I do like the idea of her dad being the Unseelie King, too. So, I don't know where that leaves me..lol.

[InkedValkyrie428]

It is cool that my mom reads the same books as me. Though sometimes we get in these HUGE debates we are each on a different side of the fence and my dad has to break it up! LMFAO!

[darkraven93]

my mother and i have wondered what Barrons is for a long time. first we thought he could be the Unseelie king, but now, we think he is a dark sorcerer. that would explain the tattoos, the Fae being scared of him, and him knowing the Voice. everyone was very scared of Lucan in Cian's book, and he wasnt even born to unnatural powers like Cian.