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Thread: Who or what is JZB?

  1. #1
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    Default Who or what is JZB?

    I think Barrons is Draghar... not only Draghar Druid trained, but all or part Draghar.

    Just as KMM used Norse legend for Berserkers, I think she again was inspired by Norse in creating her Draghar, using both of these as sources:

    1. Draugr: Old Norse for "dragon", a winged serpent.
    2. Draugr (plural Draugar: Undead creature in Norse mythology.
    a. Literally means "spirit who guards the burial mound (barrow) of a king", jealously guards treasures; the body, not just soul, of the dead;, does not decompose/corrupt; contains alter ego of deceased, his representative, retains his character, i.e. if good/kind in life, remains so as draugr in pre-Christian belief (from Viktor Rydberg's "Teutonic Mythology" p.742) *
    b. Able to leave dwelling place (barrow) and visit the living during the night, often ending in death of one or more living creatures.
    c. Can increase their size at will, size being an expression of its vast strength.
    d. Immune to usual weapons, can only be defeated by Hero in hand-to-hand combat; almost impossible to kill, may come back (likens it to vampires in legend).
    e. Move magically through earth, swims through solid stone.
    f. At times, exhibit powers of a magical nature, possess knowledge of the future, can control weather, shape-shift.
    g. Believed to long for the things of life, envy those yet alive.

    http://knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclop...uropean_dragon
    * Rydberg link too long. Google "draugr thrainn"; link starts with http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher... ; enter "draugr" in in-site search
    http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ghosts.shtml
    http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Draugr
    http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/trows/draugr.htm
    http://economicexpert.com/a/Draugr.html

    All traits listed above tie to Barrons in some way:
    1. Serpent/snake references to JB by Mac, winged serpent tattoo on Draghar Druids/followers (DH), Druids using dark magic.
    2a. JB guards treasures (relics) and treasures his belongings (Persian rug).
    b. Usually out at night, often returns with blood on him.
    c. Mac frequently mentions his taking up more space than he should.
    d. JB's speeches re killing man who broke him "with my bare hands", and about difficulty of killing vampires, other creatures "impossible to kill" (DF).
    e. At O'Bannion's vault door (DF) JB's "I'm a good swimmer" could hint at swimming through walls, not only water; says he could "continue swimmingly" without her; he defies laws of physics.
    f. JB's "I know everything" statement implies he's training/preparing Mac for future he knows she must face; fog is weather control; his sudden appearances defy laws of physics.
    g. JB's reaction to birthday cake, his reactions to blood, interest in Mac's neck (though that could be plain lust) all could indicate envy of the living.

    February's Teaser, "I was mighty.. They didn't recognize me.. I would remind them": Draghar were destroyed, some Druids scatterred, but Fae Court may not know Draghar had learned secrets of draugr-immortality. Or this scene took place long, long ago and JB was not recognized as threat (his powers not stolen). He could have been one of the Druids who were scattered and turned Draghar/draugr later; or he was rescued by 'V'lane's Princess'; or JB is Draghar/human hybrid.

    JB's curse may be his immortality (degree of undead?). I agree with whoever suggested JB could be long-dead Keltar, either forgotten or stricken from family records as Cian was -- another reason to feel cursed -- all Draghar were considered 'damned'. Several phrases from Keltar couples reappear between JB+Mac, and it would make a tidy wrap-up to the combined series.

    So, putting all my eggs in this basket, my theory is:
    1. Barrons is Draghar.
    a. Exact connection to draugr (dragon/undead) unknown yet, but exists.
    b. Draghar gained immortality, with unfortunate side-effects of undeadness.
    2. Barrons is guarding the barrow of royalty (King or Queen) and royal treasures (Fae relics).
    a. BBB is the bastion(projecting part of a fortification or stronghold) over the barrow and vault.
    3. Barrons, one of "the ancient ones", has returned to reclaim what TDD had stolen from them -- maybe powers, but also Druids' good name, right to exist.
    a. With Fae rulers incapacitated, balance of power has shifted, so "might makes right" is truer than ever. Long ago, Fae had the 'might' -- now, maybe not. This also explains the enmity between JB and V'lane: Draghar vs. Fae.
    b. Mac is at fulcrum of at least 3-way power struggle. Mac is epic, a powerful weapon.
    c. Source and extent of her abilities is unknown to her and us, not so unknown to JB and V'lane. (Known to LM? Rowena?) No wonder they all want to harness her powers to increase their faction's 'might'.
    4. Barrons kills when necessary, out of mercy and with honor.
    5. Barrons says he will never let Mac die. If she dies or is too near death to recover, JB will turn her Draghar/draugr as he is -- maybe not the HEA the way we wanted, but a HEA for Mac+Barrons just the same.
    6. Draghar/draugr are related and superior to Hunters; were betrayed by Hunters when Hunters sided (as mercenaries) with TDD against Draghar long ago.

    I could be wrong. But until theory disproved, I see definite connections between Barrons/Draghar/draugr. (Also strong connection between Barrons/Keltars, but that ventures into 'who', not the 'what' addressed here.)
    Comments welcome. (I have chocolate, so am prepared for anything.)
    Last edited by oxymoron; 03-28-2009 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #11
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    Default Ooppps...Forgot to add one last note...

    Winged serpent represents CHAOS...

    Barrons sure has caused that & more trying to figure out exactly what HE IS.
    We will just have to wait & see what Barrons actually is labeled in the end.

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    Yes, Draghar name, sect and purpose are 100% KMM creation from her imagination. Yet imagination/creation do get inspiration from external sources. Just as V'lane's name is KMM's creation, I believe it was inspired by actual words.

    Back to Barrons: Bloodfever p.155 pb:

    (JB) "For example, when the Sifting Silvers were first made they rippled like the silver of a sun-kissed sea. In those hallowed halls was beauty beyond compare. They were pure, magnificent."

    This description sounds like a vivid personal recollection, not merely a description gathered second-hand. There's feeling in the words JB uses to describe Silvers before they were cursed.

    Second, "hallowed halls" often connotes learning, academia, higher education. I believe Barrons used Silvers (before they were cursed) in his education long, long, long ago -- when Silvers were used as locomotion between dimensions and realms -- when Barrons was being taught to be Druid by Fae.

    Again, just theory.

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    Thumbs up

    Yup...Recollections of ancient times to be sure.

    Barrons may have started his existance as a human druid priest but somewhere along the lines on of the TDD recognized and gifted him with immortality. That immortal life takes on a meaning of changling to me anyway.

    A couple of subjects that led toward Changling fae was due to this fact somewhere in a topic on the board with webs.

    Celtic folklore vs Christianity & all supplied a web that stated unbaptized children & druids that died could not get into heaven and were too good for hell ended up reincarnated into the fairy realm as adults. There are no children in fairy. "Tit for tat," fae who cease to exist in the court of fae were born into the human realm as children.

    Daoine fae had the 'Chosen' that would live out their existance in the human realm within a human body until the body expired only to be given a new human body again. They were fae, not the grippers in Karen's book. These Changling chosen retained all the gifts of their familiar immortals.

    And so goes the theories in different spirals. Wrong?! Not in the least.

    Just an awfully good constructive way to use the time in between FEVER books.

    Well done, lass. Touche!

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    Thank you. I'm honored by your notice.

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    Default Im not sure if this theroy has been posted yet.....

    After reading the teaser, and just finished rereading The Highlander's Touch, and now I am wondering if JB is the half mortal son of the Unseelie King or maybe Unseelie Prince. Any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoron View Post
    Yes, Draghar name, sect and purpose are 100% KMM creation from her imagination. Yet imagination/creation do get inspiration from external sources. Just as V'lane's name is KMM's creation, I believe it was inspired by actual words.

    Back to Barrons: Bloodfever p.155 pb:

    (JB) "For example, when the Sifting Silvers were first made they rippled like the silver of a sun-kissed sea. In those hallowed halls was beauty beyond compare. They were pure, magnificent."

    This description sounds like a vivid personal recollection, not merely a description gathered second-hand. There's feeling in the words JB uses to describe Silvers before they were cursed.

    Second, "hallowed halls" often connotes learning, academia, higher education. I believe Barrons used Silvers (before they were cursed) in his education long, long, long ago -- when Silvers were used as locomotion between dimensions and realms -- when Barrons was being taught to be Druid by Fae.Again, just theory.
    Thanks for jogging my memory........
    It's interesting how we can read the same lines and get different meanings from them. Sort of like the teasers. Makes it more suspenseful.

    Here's more info about the mirrors and Fae.
    JB says they were the original way the Fae moved between realms before they evolved to where they could travel by thought alone,
    although some say they were created for a more personal purpose of the DK's...

    This sounds a bit like he's talking about research he's done on the Fae.

    In FF pg 238, V'lane gives us the Fae facts, which doesn't include the fact the mirrors were the Fae's original mode of travel between realms.
    Only that the DK made them for his concubine so she wouldn't be bored.


    Who would know the real scoop about the mirrors V'lane or JB?


    Later in the same BF scene Mac says "He's dying you know." (old man with amulet)
    JB says "Good for him." Mac says she doesn't get his sense of humor sometimes.

    Doesn't sound like JB likes being immortal. Doesn't sound happy about it like V'lane does.

    I just don't know what to believe anymore.
    Last edited by snowstorm; 03-29-2009 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowstorm View Post
    Thanks for jogging my memory........
    It's interesting how we can read the same lines and get different meanings from them. Sort of like the teasers. Makes it more suspenseful.

    Here's more info about the mirrors and Fae.
    JB says they were the original way the Fae moved between realms before they evolved to where they could travel by thought alone,
    although some say they were created for a more personal purpose of the DK's...

    This sounds a bit like he's talking about research he's done on the Fae.

    In FF pg 238, V'lane gives us the Fae facts, which doesn't include the fact that were the Fae's original mode of travel between realms.
    Only that the DK made them for his concubine so she wouldn't be bored.


    Who would know the real scoop about the mirrors V'lane or JB?


    Later in the same BF scene Mac says "He's dying you know." (old man with amulet)
    JB says "Good for him." Mac says she doesn't get his sense of humor somethime.

    Doesn't sound like JB likes being immortal. Doesn't sound happy about it like V'lane does.

    I just don't know what to believe anymore.
    Purely personal interpretation on my part, based on the tone (vague feel) of speeches:

    1. JB's words regarding creation of Silvers sound research-based:"some say.."
    2. JB's description of Silvers' original appearance sounds experience-based: "they were.."
    3. V'lane's reason for Silvers' creation sounds more experience-based than I would expect V'lane to know: "so she (concubine) wouldn't be bored" sounds more informed about UK's motives/concubine's feelings than I'd expect a prince to know about his King+concubine.

    In fact, in carefully re-reading V'lane's history lessons to Mac, he sounds as if he's soft-peddling the blame on UK. Sounds to me more lenient than I'd expect to hear from a Seelie prince -- not quite excusing, but down-playing the UK's guilt in the whole ensuing mess. I really like the idea that UK is using V'lane's form/glamour in FF when he's trying to win over Mac. (So sorry I don't remember who first posted this, but .)
    Last edited by oxymoron; 03-29-2009 at 05:42 PM.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoron View Post
    Thank you. I'm honored by your notice.

    You honor me more than you should...
    I just like to research stuff & that's all.
    Nothing more.
    I would say that you did an outstanding job all by yourself.
    Thank you for the challenge!

  10. #19
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    Lightbulb Old threads have oodles of thoughts on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamandKris View Post
    After reading the teaser, and just finished rereading The Highlander's Touch, and now I am wondering if JB is the half mortal son of the Unseelie King or maybe Unseelie Prince. Any thoughts?
    In a nutshell,
    1. IF JZB was the UK, he would not need the Sinsar Dubh. He would know what he wrote in his own book it was said. Also, the UK being of the Unseelie domain would more than likely be life sucking, cold frost biting...yet when Mac comes in contact with him, it's electric and warmth, the same type of electricity Mac notices within herself when she ate Unseelie flesh. The electric sensation I believe is more fae than just a clue of attraction.
    2. The cuff JZB offers Mac, being of Unseelie quality would also be cold life sucking much like the frame of the Unseelie Mirror Cian MacKeltar was trapped within for 1,133 years, which it wasn't.
    3. Unseelie have been seen in the light of day all over Dublin & the Unseelie Princes are also visible at this time. JZB has never been visible in the light of day, cloud & gloom, maybe but never active in daylight.

    So for those three points I would have to say that JZB is not the Unseelie, nor King, nor lower case nor a half bred son.

    But this is purely theory upon my part.
    I could be eating alot of CROW when Dreamfever comes out...

    "White meat or thigh?!"
    Nuff said...

    Last edited by *Jo*; 03-29-2009 at 09:06 PM. Reason: ;0)

  11. #20
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    Default OK this is the best

    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoron View Post
    I think Barrons is Draghar... not only Draghar Druid trained, but all or part Draghar.

    Just as KMM used Norse legend for Berserkers, I think she again was inspired by Norse in creating her Draghar, using both of these as sources:

    1. Draugr: Old Norse for "dragon", a winged serpent.
    2. Draugr (plural Draugar: Undead creature in Norse mythology.
    a. Literally means "spirit who guards the burial mound (barrow) of a king", jealously guards treasures; the body, not just soul, of the dead;, does not decompose/corrupt; contains alter ego of deceased, his representative, retains his character, i.e. if good/kind in life, remains so as draugr in pre-Christian belief (from Viktor Rydberg's "Teutonic Mythology" p.742) *
    b. Able to leave dwelling place (barrow) and visit the living during the night, often ending in death of one or more living creatures.
    c. Can increase their size at will, size being an expression of its vast strength.
    d. Immune to usual weapons, can only be defeated by Hero in hand-to-hand combat; almost impossible to kill, may come back (likens it to vampires in legend).
    e. Move magically through earth, swims through solid stone.
    f. At times, exhibit powers of a magical nature, possess knowledge of the future, can control weather, shape-shift.
    g. Believed to long for the things of life, envy those yet alive.

    http://knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclop...uropean_dragon
    * Rydberg link too long. Google "draugr thrainn"; link starts with http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher... ; enter "draugr" in in-site search
    http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ghosts.shtml
    http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Draugr
    http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/trows/draugr.htm
    http://economicexpert.com/a/Draugr.html

    All traits listed above tie to Barrons in some way:
    1. Serpent/snake references to JB by Mac, winged serpent tattoo on Draghar Druids/followers (DH), Druids using dark magic.
    2a. JB guards treasures (relics) and treasures his belongings (Persian rug).
    b. Usually out at night, often returns with blood on him.
    c. Mac frequently mentions his taking up more space than he should.
    d. JB's speeches re killing man who broke him "with my bare hands", and about difficulty of killing vampires, other creatures "impossible to kill" (DF).
    e. At O'Bannion's vault door (DF) JB's "I'm a good swimmer" could hint at swimming through walls, not only water; says he could "continue swimmingly" without her; he defies laws of physics.
    f. JB's "I know everything" statement implies he's training/preparing Mac for future he knows she must face; fog is weather control; his sudden appearances defy laws of physics.
    g. JB's reaction to birthday cake, his reactions to blood, interest in Mac's neck (though that could be plain lust) all could indicate envy of the living.

    February's Teaser, "I was mighty.. They didn't recognize me.. I would remind them": Draghar were destroyed, some Druids scatterred, but Fae Court may not know Draghar had learned secrets of draugr-immortality. Or this scene took place long, long ago and JB was not recognized as threat (his powers not stolen). He could have been one of the Druids who were scattered and turned Draghar/draugr later; or he was rescued by 'V'lane's Princess'; or JB is Draghar/human hybrid.

    JB's curse may be his immortality (degree of undead?). I agree with whoever suggested JB could be long-dead Keltar, either forgotten or stricken from family records as Cian was -- another reason to feel cursed -- all Draghar were considered 'damned'. Several phrases from Keltar couples reappear between JB+Mac, and it would make a tidy wrap-up to the combined series.

    So, putting all my eggs in this basket, my theory is:
    1. Barrons is Draghar.
    a. Exact connection to draugr (dragon/undead) unknown yet, but exists.
    b. Draghar gained immortality, with unfortunate side-effects of undeadness.
    2. Barrons is guarding the barrow of royalty (King or Queen) and royal treasures (Fae relics).
    a. BBB is the bastion(projecting part of a fortification or stronghold) over the barrow and vault.
    3. Barrons, one of "the ancient ones", has returned to reclaim what TDD had stolen from them -- maybe powers, but also Druids' good name, right to exist.
    a. With Fae rulers incapacitated, balance of power has shifted, so "might makes right" is truer than ever. Long ago, Fae had the 'might' -- now, maybe not. This also explains the enmity between JB and V'lane: Draghar vs. Fae.
    b. Mac is at fulcrum of at least 3-way power struggle. Mac is epic, a powerful weapon.
    c. Source and extent of her abilities is unknown to her and us, not so unknown to JB and V'lane. (Known to LM? Rowena?) No wonder they all want to harness her powers to increase their faction's 'might'.
    4. Barrons kills when necessary, out of mercy and with honor.
    5. Barrons says he will never let Mac die. If she dies or is too near death to recover, JB will turn her Draghar/draugr as he is -- maybe not the HEA the way we wanted, but a HEA for Mac+Barrons just the same.
    6. Draghar/draugr are related and superior to Hunters; were betrayed by Hunters when Hunters sided (as mercenaries) with TDD against Draghar long ago.

    I could be wrong. But until theory disproved, I see definite connections between Barrons/Draghar/draugr. (Also strong connection between Barrons/Keltars, but that ventures into 'who', not the 'what' addressed here.)
    Comments welcome. (I have chocolate, so am prepared for anything.)

    OK this is the best theory I have heard yet! You put ALLOT of thought and work into it so thank you. You Rock!
    Sandy


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