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Thread: JZB=not the UK

  1. #21
    JZB's woman! Mercedes Veronica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasminesylphs View Post
    Who Else Could He Be?


    'Nother point, he's someone V'lane fears enough not to speak out of turn, but is unafraid enough to fight for the priviledge of Mac's bed.

    Cuz honestly, you guys, Cauldron of Forgetting or not, if V'lane really thought JZB was UK, he would not be throwing a temper tantrum over who sexed Mac back from pri-ya... the UK's anger split their home planet in two... even with the "evil" cut out in the book, the guy is still a force to be reckoned with, the oldest Fae around, and a pretty scary dude in general. And V'lane is... childish... when it comes to the tug-o-war with Mac's lady-lotus. Dunno about you, but I wouldn't throw a temper tantrum in front of the Queen of England, even after Prince Charles takes the throne and her figurehead-slash-State-function-job passes onto someone else. Because royalty is born not made, and even without the power of state behind her, she could be one scary-ass lady.

    Finally, I think that JZB fans shouldn't want him to be the UK... yah, the idea is a love story to traverse millenias is ooh, so romantic, but really think about who the UK would have been at the time of the concubine's death.
    My points exactly.
    There are many more reasons why it DOESN'T in fact make any sense at all that JZB is one in the same w/ the UK. Why is V'lane only NOW (in SF excerpt) suspecting the UK is town when he's known JZB has been here this whole time and has admitted from book one that he keeps tabs on JZB long before Mac showed up?
    KMM has used the Tuatha de danna (sp) and Daion-sidhe (sp) and 'Children of Danu' interchangeably throughout the highlander series. Not only that, but MANY accounts use them interchangeably. only a few accounts distinguish them, and when distinguished the differences are small and insignificant. Like where they come from come.
    it has been confirmed that he is not, in fact Fae but other than human.
    How is it that JZB can catch and see Dani while she's 'speeding' but none of the other fae can?
    Also, in one of KMM's interviews, she says she would like to interview the UK. to ask him if he's sorry. Why would she want to do that if he is in fact redeemed and JZB???
    At this point, i don't think we're gonna get the UK's story. But who know's what the future holds? Right now, we're getting Mac's & JZB's, Christian's & Ryodan's. And yes, I assume it's Mac & JZB getting together. And for those of you who don't already know, Christian and Ryodan are getting their own story. My guess is that Christian's is next (the signed 3 book contract). Then Ry's (not signed, but one of the two series KMM plans on).

    Why is the UK hunter just NOW being spotted? Instead of earlier in the series?
    or earlier before Mac while V'lane had been keeping tabs on JZB/UK?

    I can go on and on. List reason after reason.
    It's a great theory. And for a good while, made a lot of sense. But in light of DrF, the theory's been blown. I've re-read the series, with the thinking of JZB being the UK.....and there are many times when it doesn't make the LEAST bit of sense at all.

    Do i have another theory? ....Not really. I just think that JZB is in fact the hero, no matter the shade of gray he is. He's the beast. the one "dead" at the end. And the one mac is in love with in this love-lust triangle. That Christian is in fact saved from the Hall of All Days (but not saved from what is now wrong with him--set up for his story, the next series). The walls stay down and the world isn't the same. the QA doesn't come out of hiding and save the day. and somehow, the problem of the SD is solved. We find out about Mac's heritage, the lake inside her head. Who really did kill Alina (i don't think Darroc) and why. Who DEG is, the shadow-thing/fourth is, and who is sending mac the journal pieces. The big secret dani is hiding that mac would kill her for. That mac becomes the grand-mistress (crosses fingers). We get explanations of JZB, and of course, he lives. We get our romance and hott hott sex. the world will be much like it is in chesters. with fae still alive and roaming. the sidhe-seers killing as many as they can (w/ only two weapons to kill em with---how fair is that??). Darroc is somehow somewhat redeemed but is probably some how killed off. I'm sorry, but after orchestrating Mac's gang rape....no, i'm sorry. that is complete disregard for a woman's ...idk what to call it. i mean, his own plans came before Alina, no matter he much or little he may have loved her. He still loved himself above all.
    Sorry but for those of u who think JZB is all big and bad, he NEVER did that and never would. And neither would v'lane. He didn't have to stop when Mac said no. Yes, he kept pushing, but he could've simply forced himself. He never did. (however, I don't think V'lane is emotionally invested in Mac the way JZB is. V'lane deeply respects her, which is saying a lot for him, and lusts after her. But I don't think there is any love there. if v'lane ever gets his own story....she'll, whoever 'she' would be, would have to be one hell of a woman, i mean, more woman than Mac--and that's not easy. and v'lane has to reach that point where he can in fact love a woman and respect a woman in the manner adam does. he's getting there, but he's not quite there yet.)


    sorry, got a little of topic. but i had to share
    Last edited by Mercedes Veronica; 12-20-2010 at 05:28 PM.

    by VP--she freakin rocks!

  2. #22
    Maniac Vahista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasminesylphs View Post
    Who Else Could He Be?

    Well, lets examine that a little, with two ideas I've picked up and am going to mash together until they fit:

    #1 KMM has said that the concubine was a mortal from a world not Earth... which means she has to have a race, culture and a people of her own.

    #2 If we're to assume that after the concubine's death, the UK was seeking a type of post-mortem forgiveness from her, chosing the life of a mercenary ("to the core"; i.e. no compassion during a job and loyalty only to the one who hired him for the length of the contract) seems out of the character for which he was trying.

    A better theory is that JZB is something other, and... I postulate that he is of the concubine's original race.

    In KMM's world, people that catch the eye of Fae royalty are beautiful and powerful in their own right: Hawk is a gorgeous laird, Gabby is a beautiful lawyer/sidhe-seer, Mac is a beautiful warrior sidhe-seer, even Alina was beautiful, smart, and driven. All of these people (with the possible exception of Gabby) had others that would fight for them if they disappeared, or left their own world and were shut-ins in a mirror-boardered world. Why would the concubine be any different? I think that the people of her world would notice her absence and mourn her, even if she went willingly.

    Continuing on... a few other points:

    The concubine was shut in for thousands of years, awaiting the UK's attempt to make her... immortal? Fae? I can't remember which at the moment, but either way the result is the same: if all he wanted was her with him forever, and if it was so easy for Adam to steal the immortal-elixer from Aoibheal... why didn't UK do that (it only takes one treatment)? And what if the UK did do that... she was alive for thousands of years. She wouldn't have a soul to reincarnate after her suicide and Mac couldn't be the concubine. If we are to assume UK found another way to keep her alive until he could make her Fae, making her Fae would be no different for the state of the concubine's soul as Fae don't have them... so why not use the potion in the meantime? It has been stated before that immortality and souls are two things that never mix for long, so I doubt Mac is the reincarnate concubine. (Ergo, the case for JZB to be UK is weakened.)

    However, my previous arguement is on shaky ground if one assumes UK had a different, soul-preserving way to keep the concubine alive (like Cian, since she was in the mirrors). But, please also note, that if UK wanted her Fae, she still wouldn't have had a soul at the end of it.

    Now, we know the concubine had to leave the mirror-world and go back to the mortal world to die (which supports the above arguement for soul-preserving). She would go home, I would assume, to a world that she knew before UK. Now, barring any kind of HUGe time-shift differences, after a thousand years gone, she would be a legend in her own world, a story. Like us suddenly discovering a cryo-frozen King Arthur and his Round Table somewhere in the mountains of Scotland and reanimating him. And she isn't going to be silent about what happened to her... she hasn't seen her people in millenium (and I think it implies she didn't see anyone but the UK (& possibly his creations) during her time in Fairy), so she's going to tell her story and then she's going to die, eventually. KMM never says whether it's natural old-age style, a swift dagger between her breasts (there are a shortage of perfect breasts in the world), or whether like Cian's story, she crumpled to dust after failing to pay the mirror its gold. And imagine what finding a cryo-frozen King Arthur would do in our world... we'd have men and women from all over the world rushing to England to pledge themselves to the Round Table, there would be rallies to instate him as King of England and people would riot in the streets. So, at the very least, we can assume that at least nine men pledged themselves to avenging her and attempted to find Danu and the UK and bring him to justice. We can assume that these men would work dark arts to make themselves immortal, traverse dimensions, and fight on planets not their own. (Heck, maybe the "mortality" of the concubine's people is somewhere between 70 years and forever, and she and the nine can live millenia under their own steam and still be "mortal". just sayin')

    So, long point short, Barrons could be an "other." A person of the concubine's own race that was so offended by her captivity and the loss of her self (remember how he snarled at Mac to fight for survival... perhaps because his "bright star" was so beaten down with despair that she willed herself to die?) that he's been following and fighting the Fae since her death...

    'Nother point, he's someone V'lane fears enough not to speak out of turn, but is unafraid enough to fight for the priviledge of Mac's bed.

    Cuz honestly, you guys, Cauldron of Forgetting or not, if V'lane really thought JZB was UK, he would not be throwing a temper tantrum over who sexed Mac back from pri-ya... the UK's anger split their home planet in two... even with the "evil" cut out in the book, the guy is still a force to be reckoned with, the oldest Fae around, and a pretty scary dude in general. And V'lane is... childish... when it comes to the tug-o-war with Mac's lady-lotus. Dunno about you, but I wouldn't throw a temper tantrum in front of the Queen of England, even after Prince Charles takes the throne and her figurehead-slash-State-function-job passes onto someone else. Because royalty is born not made, and even without the power of state behind her, she could be one scary-ass lady.

    Finally, I think that JZB fans shouldn't want him to be the UK... yah, the idea is a love story to traverse millenias is ooh, so romantic, but really think about who the UK would have been at the time of the concubine's death.

    If she's the tragic figure here, then the UK's obsession with keeping her with him in a permanent fashion borders on psychotic. In today's world, if a man locks a woman up so she won't be discovered by his wife, performs gross genetic experiments to force an unlock to immortality he's a super-villian in a comic book. Then when you add that he at turns ignores the object of his affections (cuz really, by this point she is an object to him) to avoid suspicion then goes and makes crazy-fabulous-bordering-on-desperate-love to her he turns into a pathetic road-stop, motel-renting, sleaze-ball cheater. Keep in mind, he's doing all this while morally devolving to something that is capable of possessing someone, taking it home to murder everyone they love before killing themselves (has ANYONE noticed that damn book's MO and been even a leeetle creeped out by it?). This continues ad nauseum for thousands of years until the only escape she had (and it was escape, he didn't let her out willingly) was HER death???? This isn't a love story, this is a police report after a murder-suicide!!! Any if JZB is UK, he's back for seconds?

    Reading JZB like the UK, the lines, "I will never let you die" don't so much sound romantic and star-crossed, they sound like something a snapped husband said right before putting the last brick into the wall the encases his tied-up wife! Thousands of years of separation, forget about it! Even if the UK goes into abusive-husband treatment and has spent several millenia in recovery, the most loving gift he could give the reincarnation of his love is a wide berth: let her love and be happy without him.

    Anyway, I know there are HUGE UKJZM fans out there, and I don't mean to offend, but I guess I'm hoping for something more interesting and less obvious in Shadowfever. (ooh, like MAC's the UK and Jericho is the concubine... swapped by a spell!)
    ROFLMAO! I love love love your take on the UK and agree with it completely.. I really dont think JZB is the UK, i mean he does say he's Pict/Basque in the 1st book.. why would a fae king who isnt even from this world say that? :S
    He could have lied, but i dont see any point in lying about something like that..

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbear82 View Post
    Actually that is not true because it is said that everytime the book is opened the language changes so that not even the UK would be able to read it.
    I was not aware of this. Just curious as to which novel you found this in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJTVH View Post
    Welcome to my side! I've been saying that pretty vocally in the various threads all along! Some of the more recent teasers in KMM's newsletter have made me waiver abit, but no, I still don't think he is!
    Then also think the barron's is not the kingdom! it is a race of immortal mercenary who is in my opinion!

  5. #25
    JZB's woman! Mercedes Veronica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vahista View Post
    ROFLMAO! I love love love your take on the UK and agree with it completely.. I really dont think JZB is the UK, i mean he does say he's Pict/Basque in the 1st book.. why would a fae king who isnt even from this world say that? :S
    He could have lied, but i dont see any point in lying about something like that..
    now that is one thing i haven't in fact thought of!

    Quote Originally Posted by SwimRobin View Post
    I was not aware of this. Just curious as to which novel you found this in?
    same

  6. #26
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    I won't quote because it's quite long But I totally agree with the message from Mercedes Veronica a few messages above.

    I just can't see JZB as the UK. I can't explain it, but I just don't see it.

    He's something else, something we haven't seen and can't know for sure because it's new.

    Who's the UK? Urgh... I don't know.

    I just started rereading the series to try to figure it all, but it's gonna take some time because I'll be waiting for my BF until January

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    Shootin' my mouth off here with little to no textual evidence... but theories are fun!

    UK is the dreaming boy... dreaming because he's ripped so much out of him that's "evil" that he's a little addlepated, no one's gonna search for the UK in the body of a surfer dude (I always imagine a kind of soft, "chaa" from dreaming boy whenever he's on scene) and that trick with the mirror was him warning Mac not to mess with Ryordan's rules at the moment bcz he has his own plan for redemption... That and he's not named at all... no-named people with significant flags waving over their heads are important... that's why we're calling the UK "UK" and not Liam, or the concubine "the concubine" instead of Anne... to mask their identity with a role.

    OR! UK is the "gripper" (an unknown evil, Mac has a feeling of malevolence, but no real proof as to what it does). He pulled so much of his evil away into a corporeal form (the book) that now he's incorporeal... makes some sense as to how he's been under the radar for so long and how he's managed to stay sane as old as he is (and how depraved) without the CoF.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasminesylphs View Post
    Shootin' my mouth off here with little to no textual evidence... but theories are fun!

    UK is the dreaming boy... dreaming because he's ripped so much out of him that's "evil" that he's a little addlepated, no one's gonna search for the UK in the body of a surfer dude (I always imagine a kind of soft, "chaa" from dreaming boy whenever he's on scene) and that trick with the mirror was him warning Mac not to mess with Ryordan's rules at the moment bcz he has his own plan for redemption... That and he's not named at all... no-named people with significant flags waving over their heads are important... that's why we're calling the UK "UK" and not Liam, or the concubine "the concubine" instead of Anne... to mask their identity with a role.

    OR! UK is the "gripper" (an unknown evil, Mac has a feeling of malevolence, but no real proof as to what it does). He pulled so much of his evil away into a corporeal form (the book) that now he's incorporeal... makes some sense as to how he's been under the radar for so long and how he's managed to stay sane as old as he is (and how depraved) without the CoF.
    Hmm... I suppose the UK could be DEG, but i dont think he's addlepated or incorporeal as a conscequence of creating the book because doesn't Bastion say in TIH that the UK was last seen some 2 score & 10 yrs ago and i am guessing the book's been around a lot longer that that. Wouldn't the hunter have mentioned that if only to make sure that Darroc let more of them out? hope this makes sense!

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    For me: I have the feeling Barrons is much older then UK..

    Somewhere in the mist o' time
    a Fever rages in a Highlander "mine"~~
    Dual breath in a Druid born
    An Immortal lad of a Keltar lore~~
    Souls of the present meet the soul of past
    No canceling out of the sexy extra large Keltar lad~~
    Two of his kind, one stays behind
    in the past and in a present kin~~
    I'm trying to find A missing Keltar "Mine"
    Oh Dageus wherefor are though my friend?

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    A couple more reasons I dont believe the JZB/UK & Mac/concubine theory:

    1) pg. 167 Dreamfever: when Mac is inside JZB's head he/she recalls with regard to the Fae princess 'She was energy, she was empty' & 'I was more pleasure than any of her princes could ever be. I was full.'
    Wouldnt he be 'empty' as well if he were the UK? I dunno, i would probably expect him to be emptier and colder than the other seelie if he were the Unseelie King!
    2) the UK theory supporters often seem to quote that when Fiona mentions the 'delicious absurdity' she meens that Mac still doesnt know that she was the concubine & JZB the UK. But if that were true then why was she shocked that JZB was still with Mac? 'You have not wearied of her yet. You disappoint me, Jericho' wouldn't she expect the UK to be still obsessed with his concubine?

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